Thanks Fishers for the info. I need to try up by the bank at our dock. The development has put in some small trees in buckets a few years ago when the lake level was really low. Last year they were slaying them up between those trees and the shore -- dragging a jig under a cork about 8-10" down. Sometimes I'm just a little too stubborn (and lazy). I enjoy just sitting in the shade on the dock in my chair with the rods sitting on the dock while I consume a nice cold one. When I see the line take off, I set my cold one down and get the fish. If the fishing is slow, well that just means I get to enjoy a few more cold ones. I need to get up and around earlier and try them in the morning also.