Thread: Cold Rain/Nimrod

Originally Posted by BUCKET (0) MOUTH

AJ,
What you are saying is somewhat true, but where would the corps be if the avid fishermen (taxpayers) could say no more money for you until you consider our side of the situation. I have been told by the corps up at Nimrod several times that the lake is there for flood control and they could care less about the fishing or the fishermen. Sorry but that is the way it is. Nimrod use to be the best crappie lake in the state of AR. until the corps started yo yoing the lake level during spawning season and started keeping the level below the buckbrush for the crappie to spawn in. You can say I am criticizing, but in fact I am telling the truth.

Like it or not Corps lakes were CONGRESSIONALLY mandated (not Corps mandated) to (1) be used for flood control (2) and navigation (in some case like the Arkansas River) (3) electrical generation, in some cases and (4) and a distant fourth...you guessed it, recreation.

Now as a fisherman that gives me a little grief as it does you. But in this life, there are things one just has to live with. Regardless of my angst, the systems are doing what they were designed to do!

I would challenge you to go to the History Commission in Little Rock and ask them to pull some of the river maps from the 30's. The Arkansas was a muddy, intermittent stream for the most part, with farmers living near being completely at its mercy! There are photos where a farmer would go to bed on one side of the river and literally wake up on the OTHER side.

The lakes were built because inevitable flooding absolutely desimated our economy. THAT was and remains to be the primary existence for these beautiful bodies of water that you take for granted! BUT...a great secondary by-product of all this tax money being spent...and all this land being protected and all this economy being stabilized is the wonderful fisheries that abound in our state. Texas would LOVE to be in our shoes. Even though they have a few lakes, by their size, they have little and people view the six-o'clock news daily to see what the aquifer levels are currently. That is sad, bud!

You can continue with the narrow-minded point of view if you wish, but if I were you, I'd consider all the factors.

The flucuations of any corps facility are caused by primarily two different issues...and there are two kinds of water to consider. Did you know that? There is (1) corps-related water...the water being released because of certain contractual obligations and agreements, and (2) natural water; water rising from natural events, like in May of 1990.

Just three weeks ago, Lake Ouachita was two feet low and all the buck brush was high and dry. I was muttering to myself about how it was going to affect the spawn but realized that they had to hold flood storage in reserve for the Spring rains. Today it is three and a half feet above normal...with cooled down water. Why? Hot Springs got 2" of rain three days ago and the Corps could do nothing to stop it! :rolleyes:

In May of 1990, many homes were damaged along the river, especially around Fort Smith and just south of there. Why? Because natural events caused us to have more water than we could keep within the banks of the river. If this had taken place before the implacement of the locks and dams on the river, instead of jus these homes being flooded, the economy would have suffered widely and for a very long time, with the flood waters wiping out entire crops for the year. We can't wrap our minds around that because we are too young to have experienced it. But during those times, it was just feast or famine.

These Corps lakes were constructed in varying watersheds to assist in the control of flooding, mainly. Do they control all the flooding so that no one is impacted? Certainly not, but these systems lessen the impact of major catostrophic flooding.

I don't like playing fourth fiddle as a recreational fisherman on Corps lakes. However, I am most proud of the accomplishment of this agency and spent a great deal of my life attempting to improve it for the betterment of our ENTIRE society. The US Army Corps of Engineers is an agency that stands in the gap and our society and its economy have benefited greatly from their efforts. That's what's true! The Corps will not please everyone because of varied interests--just ask the resident around Lake Lanier, GA, but they do the job they were congressionally mandated to do, and if I can catch a fish or two and fll my freezer as well, then live and let live.

You have an option. You don't have to fish corps-managed lakes. I am not writing this to be argumentative, but to inform. Perhaps you will set your pride aside and attempt to expand your knowledge of the situation. Lincoln stated once that "One can make interesting conversation when not hampered by facts or information." So, I ask that you please consider some of what I have said and enjoy the great fishing we DO have.

If you want to continue the conversation, how about pm-ing me and I'll do all I can to assist. I don't want to bore the forum readers with this issue. It has been discussed several times here in the past.

As a (nearly) full-time fisherman on Lake Ouachita, I must contend with the Corps management policies and I must accept the FACT that my concerns as a recreational fisherman come as a distant fourth. As much as I love to fish, there are more important issues to be considered...and I realize that.

Thanks for reading. I really hope this helps you understand the issues better. You notice I didn't ask you to agree with me, but now, perhaps you are a bit more informed and can make statements that reflect the facts.

aj

AJ, Did not intend anything personal toward you. The corps has done and is doing some great work. My point is that in a lot of cases they could be doing more to help recreation while doing their work. I"m sorry that you feel that my thoughts are narrow and have no bearing on the problem. Often times attitudes of people and organizations are the worst part of the whole situations. I am finished with this subject, and I apologize if I offended you personally, but the congress and the corps and their attitudes is another story.

Arkie John-You give a very good perspective on this issue (And others involving the COE, and you are not always biased towards them) I have been guilty of griping when the buckbrush is on dry land and most times I do check myself and remember it is not all about me and I am just glad to have so many nice places to fish & camp.
By the way, was that you I ran into at the Valero around Percy or Hempwallace last Thursday? If so, sorry I wasnt in much of a talking mood, had to make it to a doctors appointment. Maybe sometime I will see you on one of those brushpiles on Ouachita you were telling me about.

Originally Posted by wishtofish

Arkie John-You give a very good perspective on this issue (And others involving the COE, and you are not always biased towards them) I have been guilty of griping when the buckbrush is on dry land and most times I do check myself and remember it is not all about me and I am just glad to have so many nice places to fish & camp.
By the way, was that you I ran into at the Valero around Percy or Hempwallace last Thursday? If so, sorry I wasnt in much of a talking mood, had to make it to a doctors appointment. Maybe sometime I will see you on one of those brushpiles on Ouachita you were telling me about.

I hope to bump into you again sometime. You need to come with me to Ouachita sometime. I'm always open to take a crappie.comer fishing!

Thanks for your comments. You know, I realize the Corps has faults and that they can't be all things to all people but I just try to inform whenever I can. When I read the postings of some folks, I just have to comment and give (hopefully) an unbiased opinion. I didn't always work for the Corps and before I did, I was guilty of undue judgments against the Corps from time to time.

But I do remember when the road to Crystal Springs was a dirt road. There were two MAJOR mud holes that would intimidate any fisherman in a 1/2 ton pick-up truck. Once we got to the lake there was an old boat dock with about ten home-made cypress boats and sculling paddles. On the dock was a bait shop and a (very limited) store where I could get a coke and a candy bar or other 'fish food.' No camping, no electricity, no hot water showers or fish cleaning stations. Rarely did a boat venture a half mile from the boat dock. We didn't have to because we just slaughtered the crappie--filled the red metal Coke ice chests UP.

I still get to fish that beautiful lake and with all the ammenities one could ask for. Concrete ramps, fish cleaning stations, fine camp sites with hook-ups, outside lighting...did I mention the beautiful, stunning scenery? I have never seen a more beautiful sunset than the one I witnessed just this afternoon in the bigger waters between Twin Creeks and Denby Point. We didn't catch a limit today, but man was it worth the drive! <><

aj

Originally Posted by BUCKET (0) MOUTH

AJ, Did not intend anything personal toward you. The corps has done and is doing some great work. My point is that in a lot of cases they could be doing more to help recreation while doing their work. I"m sorry that you feel that my thoughts are narrow and have no bearing on the problem. Often times attitudes of people and organizations are the worst part of the whole situations. I am finished with this subject, and I apologize if I offended you personally, but the congress and the corps and their attitudes is another story.

The point is, what YOU think DOES count and that is why I took the time to attempt to explain the corporate point of view of the Corps--good, bad or indifferent. I just want you to be armed with a few facts so that you can make informed, conscious, decisions about future postings or other expressions of your point of view.

The Corps is far from a perfect organization. Boy do they have their faults! But as far as Federal Agencies are concerned, the Corps has done more to change the face of Arkansas fishing for the good, than any other agency I know...to include the Forest Service (Federal), the Arkansas Game and Fish (State) and the National Parks Service (Federal). Without the Corps, many of those birds would not even be working. lol

It was not my intent to sound caustic. Much is lost when communications is dependent fully on (just) the written word. There is certainly no apology necessary on your part. I'd like to encourage you to attend any and all public meetings the Corps puts on, from time to time. Perhaps I'll see you there. They DO listen to us fourth-rated fishermen and are sensitive to public opinion--especially when written to congress or the senate.

Finally, I am fully retired and no longer associated with the Corps. My point of view is from a fisherman's point of view, but tempered by the facts as I have learned them over the years. When I came back from Viet Nam I asked the good Lord for a little piece of land and the ability to live out the rest of my life in relative peace. I am blessed enough to have that little piece of land, located 15 miles south of Lake Ouachita; 15 miles north of DeGray; 35 miles east of Greeson and 5 miles west of Hamilton. I have the peace I asked for, as well. A good deal of it is found the beautiful waters of these lakes. For these things, I am grateful.

Thanks for reading and listening. Perhaps we'll meet on the lake one day and you can come aboard for a coke and we can swap a story or three! :D <><

aj

Originally Posted by Arkie John

The point is, what YOU think DOES count and that is why I took the time to attempt to explain the corporate point of view of the Corps--good, bad or indifferent. I just want you to be armed with a few facts so that you can make informed, conscious, decisions about future postings or other expressions of your point of view.

The Corps is far from a perfect organization. Boy do they have their faults! But as far as Federal Agencies are concerned, the Corps has done more to change the face of Arkansas fishing for the good, than any other agency I know...to include the Forest Service (Federal), the Arkansas Game and Fish (State) and the National Parks Service (Federal). Without the Corps, many of those birds would not even be working. lol

It was not my intent to sound caustic. Much is lost when communications is dependent fully on (just) the written word. There is certainly no apology necessary on your part. I'd like to encourage you to attend any and all public meetings the Corps puts on, from time to time. Perhaps I'll see you there. They DO listen to us fourth-rated fishermen and are sensitive to public opinion--especially when written to congress or the senate.

Finally, I am fully retired and no longer associated with the Corps. My point of view is from a fisherman's point of view, but tempered by the facts as I have learned them over the years. When I came back from Viet Nam I asked the good Lord for a little piece of land and the ability to live out the rest of my life in relative peace. I am blessed enough to have that little piece of land, located 15 miles south of Lake Ouachita; 15 miles north of DeGray; 35 miles east of Greeson and 5 miles west of Hamilton. I have the peace I asked for, as well. A good deal of it is found the beautiful waters of these lakes. For these things, I am grateful.

Thanks for reading and listening. Perhaps we'll meet on the lake one day and you can come aboard for a coke and we can swap a story or three! :D <><

aj

Would love to share one with you AJ and the same from this end. Know about the little spot of heaven on this earth. I have one of those about 10 miles from Greers Ferry (one of those Corps lakes). Sure do enjoy it and will recommend it to anyone. For what ever reason though, the crappie fishing went dead here for several years and I still blame it on stocking the Hybrid Bass in the lake. They are such and agressive fish and will eat anything. The G&F stock them by the buckets full and a lot of people from up north think they are the finest thing since sliced brread (each to their own). Now I do enjoy catching one every once in a while, but you could not pay me to eat one. They actually stink when you cook them. Pardon the rambling. The Crappie fishing is getting a lot better the last two years. In fact a good friend and fishing buddy and I went out today from Choctaw and caught 20 nice ones. 12 of the 20 were two plus lbs. Did not get any pics. but they were sure a great looking string of crappie. Wind was rough but staying with the program you could catch one here and one there. Some shallow and some deep. Crazy, not bunched at all. Dont think we caught over two in close proximity. One crazy thing did happen, caught about a 2 1/2 lb. small mouth and when I cleaned him he had three large plastic worms (one with the hook still in it) and a large plastic lizzard in him. There is no way he could have digested these and/or passed them, so I guese he would have died sooner or later. Enough of this plaber, hope to meet you some time on the water and have a good day. BM...

Hey bucket....sorry I just saw your question....I know some Meritts here ( I'm building a spec home just off of Meritt Rd. right now ) but Seth Jr. dosen't ring a bell. Good catch you made on Greer's today....I was going to go today but have come down with a pretty bad stomach virus that kept me in.