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Guys, we have to start a new CJ THREAD each year for SLAB, so it doesn't cause problems with the server/etc.
Slab will put the old thread in the Archives and list the address on here, so we can go back to check on patterns, dates, etc.
Feel free to copy and post any old info, or posts, that you like off the last thread.
GOOD FISHING!
Here's the previous thread from 2014/2015: http://www.crappie.com/crappie/ohio/...ishing-thread/
Tips for lure color selection
Choosing lure color for maximum benefit. When you start combining the effect of all of the above influences you can see that it is most unlikely that we'll be fishing under conditions that are perfect for light penetration into the water. More often than not, some or all of the above factors will come into play and will alter how the fish see lure color.
Well, here are a few tips to consider:
1. Use dark colors at night. THIS PROVIDES CONTRAST.
When you think about it, all colors appear to us at night to be black or shades of dark grey. Usually when we see something at night it's a shadow, and dark colors give the best shadow. Also, fish usually attack lures from below at night and during low light conditions. This is because it maximizes the benefit of any limited light available. Under these conditions a dark lure throws the best silhouette and is therefore the most visible. Black, dark blue and purple are good choices at this time of day.
2. During winter or periods when there is lots of particulate material in the water (such as silt or algae), reds and oranges are the first colors to be filtered out. Under these conditions, lures with plenty of yellow, green or blue appear the most colorful below the surface. FLUORECENT COLORS DO NOT FADE if UV light is available (past Violet)! Also use darker contrasting colors of White!
3. Red, orange, yellow, White, silver, metallic, flakes in colors, and FLUORESCENT colors, are most intense during bright summer days in clear, shallow water. Metallic finishes have some benefits at depth because they have a tendency to create flash, even under relatively low light conditions. Mind you, all colors are visible under these bright conditions and if the fish are actively feeding on baitfish that are blue in color, then that's the color to use. MATCH THE HATCH!
4. Color choice IS NOT A CONSIDERATION if you are fishing or trolling deep, particularly under low light conditions or if the water is colored or dirty. EVERYTHING will look shades of Gray or Black....The most important factors under these conditions are lure size, shape and action.
5. When fishing top water lures, color is FAR LESS important than size, shape and action. A fish coming up below a surface or shallow running lure has the light behind it, making the lure appear grey or black. Try it for yourself - hold a fluorescent lure up to the sun and view it from below. Black and dark colors remain the best for surface lures because they throw a great silhouette.
6. Red and orange lures come into their own in tannin stained waters, as do FLUORESCENT hues...along with Black or White!
The reality is often that the size, shape, action or noise made by the lure play a much more important role in eliciting a strike. Don't underestimate angler confidence either - we will tend to persevere more and try harder with a lure we have had success with in the past.
Choose a lure based on the size of local baitfish, the depth at which your quarry is to be found, and the action most likely to produce results....then think about color.
The exception would be fishing in clear, shallow water, especially if the fish are feeding predominantly on baitfish or prey, of a particular color.
COLOR RESEARCH FOR "FEEDING" FISH!
Colors underwater never appear the same as they do in your hand...the sayings about "colors catching fishermen" are very true!
The three fish I mainly researched, Bass, Walleye, and Crappie, can see colors, it is thought that they actually see the yellow, orange, red, green, better than humans. They can tell the difference between smoke and smoke with red flakes or silver glitter, pumpkin and red pumpkin, watermelon and red or black flaked watermelon. They also have better visual acuity which helps at dawn or dusk. Research has also shown that sometimes they will scrutinize colors before committing to eat...they will pick a color that they are presently eating (match the hatch).
Since most of my fishing is in stained water I made it easy and used just the info FOR STAINED/FERTILE WATER LIKE CJ.
*If the STAINED water has a visibility of 5 feet anywhere in the lake, Fish can see FLAKES well, Natural colors are a must...Silver, Gold, subtle greens/browns.
*If the water has a visibility of 1-3 feet, use brighter colors like firetiger, Fluorescents, citrus shad.
*If the water has less than a foot of visibility use dark colors, dark patterns, bright craw patterns, Black/Blue.
*Contrast is key, you need to make it stand out, to get them to "See It"...contrast the rocks, bottom, water color, cover, etc!
BLUEBIRD SKYS offer another problem...in stained water, high "Bluebird sun" CAN MUTE NATURAL COLORS, so go brighter (Fluorescent, and add flash).
On cloudy days!
* shiny colors lose their effectiveness under cloud cover...silver and gold turn gray, use white and pearl instead.
* Natural colors cannot be distinguished ON THE BOTTOM, use brown, black, blue/black, or other dark combos that contrast.
* Cloudy stained water filters out RED...it appears to turn into a grey!
* FIRETIGER stands out in all conditions, Black, and Fluorescent/pearl colors, also.
SHAD AT CJ WITH LIGHT PENETRATION TO ANY DEPTH will appear silvery, with subtle greens, blues, purple, and gold....on a cloudy day they will look light gray with a darker back!
Too often a lure will be selected on color, when the chosen color is often not visible to fish anyway. SAME WITH LINE COLOR, beads, hooks, etc, IN THE WATER!
AND FOR THOSE OF US THAT LIKE GATORS....THEY SEE IN "HIGH DEFINITION" black and white AT NIGHT! "All fish with the rods and cones like Bass, Crappie, and Walleye, see in BLACK and White at night....but unlike all the other fishes, Walleye have HD night vision and "see" better than their prey"...Walleye have the best night vision and can also pick up any UV given off!
THE LIGHT/COLOR EQUATION
The color of a lure is the result of the color of light it reflects. As this light penetrates the water column in wavelengths, colors begin to be absorbed as the depth increases. Red produces the longest wavelengths, followed in order by orange, yellow, green, blue, indigo, and violet. Those colors with the longest wavelength are absorbed first, meaning the hue fades and gradually appears black much quicker than all other colors. Warm colors are first to go, while cool colors hold on to their hue longest.
Shiny lures such as silver and gold are less effective when cloud cover rolls in, and can become almost invisible without the sun shining, even in clear water. The reason for this is that they reflect the grayness that is surrounding them, instead of the bright rays of the sun. Tossing dark colors during periods such as this will often work best, giving your lure the greatest contrast and silhouette.
Keep in mind that as the sun sets, those colors possessing the longest wavelengths—starting with red—will disappear the quickest. Once the sun rises, blue and green are the first colors a fish will see, with red being last.
Largemouth bass see colors very well to a depth of approximately five feet when water clarity is good. Since the majority of their prey reside in shallow water, duplicating or “matching the hatch” of the predominant baitfish (generally shades of silver, white, or perch) can be advantageous. Once that same depth of water becomes stained, and vision is restricted, a switch to brighter hues—chartreuse, red, orange—will often put the odds in your favor. Although all colors are absorbed quickly in this circumstance, orange and red will still be most visible when underwater. Chartreuse is a close second. If the water turns the color of chocolate milk, stick to dark colors.
THE CRITERIA FOR CONTRAST
The ability for a fish to see a lure has a lot to do with background color. If fishing a green-colored lure in thick vegetation, or in algae-stained water, although it may appear natural, a fish may struggle to spot it. More often than not, we actually camouflage our baits without knowing it.
A key in these situations is to choose a lure that contrasts against the background you are fishing. Two-toned lures are an excellent choice when faced with this dilemma. Bass are functionally most sensitive to colors in the ranges of red-orange and yellow-green. However, that is not to say that “colors” like black and white, or colors like blue that are perceived as grey are ineffective, since sometimes these colors contrast better against the prevailing background than do colors to which the bass is more sensitive. For instance, in a reddish muddy river, although the dominant available color is red and bass are most sensitive to red-orange, a lure with a brownish red crawdad pattern would be difficult for the bass to see. Black lures, on the other hand, would contrast much better and be more easily detected.
PREDATOR/PREY CORRELATION
Walleye feeding on perch or smallmouth bass on crayfish are tuned in to the nuances of that specific prey, and rely on the recognition of body shape/profile and color to hunt each morsel down. “One way fish use color vision is in recognizing specific visual patterns. As a fish grows, it gradually accumulates distinct mental images of objects that are important to its survival. Color, or rather color patterns, play a big role in fashioning those mental images, helping to separate one image from another. That is huge when it comes to discerning one prey species from another or avoiding specific predators, since the appropriate behavioral response is highly dependent on what the prey or predator is. For example, in cases when fish are feeding with more reserve and are being more selective, the fish may be hunting for a particular favorite prey, meaning that it is searching for a particular visual pattern. In these cases, it is important to play the old game of “matching the hatch,” to essentially give the fish what it is looking for.
Brown is a color that routinely works well for smallmouth bass. Although it may not appear true to its color once far down below, it will still match the same colorations of a crayfish found at those depths. (Remember: any two items that look the same above water will resemble each other down below.) This is where shade comes in to play. The same can be said for largemouth bass feeding on smelt. Tossing a white/silver lure will replicate the sheen of this baitfish precisely, and activate the recognition switch first through the eyes of the bass, then ultimately in the brain. Spend some time in the shallows seeking out the resident baitfish, or check for regurgitated minnows or craws when bringing a fish to the surface. This will give you invaluable insight into a good starting color to toss.
Working clear water is also a time to experiment with natural colors, and as mentioned earlier, those that contrast the background surroundings. Clear water allows a fish to inspect a bait more closely, and as opposed to murky water and reactionary strikes, the more time a fish can give your lure the once over is the more reason to make it appear as lifelike as possible.
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Just adding some other info about Bass eyesight!
Bass Eyesight
Good Enough to See Prey, Lures, Lines, Bait and You!
Arguably, bass eyesight is its most important sense as a bass feeds primarily by sight, especially in clear water.
It can see in all directions because their eyes are set slightly forward and on the sides of its head giving each eye virtually a 180-degree visual field arc of vision on each side of its body.
There are, however, blind spots. It cannot see directly behind or below itself. Items in this "dead zone" will go unnoticed. Bass are weary of attack from the rear so often back into cover as a precautionary posture.
Lateral Monocular Vision of Bass
The lens of a bass' eye extends beyond the plane of the pupil giving the bass an exceptionally wide lateral field of view. Vision to its sides is monocular (sees with one eye) and farsighted providing at most a viewing distance no more than 50 feet in clear water.
The visual acuity laterally of a bass' eyesight, the ability to distinguish fine details in images, is quite sharp, though depth perception is inferior to that in its frontal vision. The peripheral ability inherent in bass eyesight to focus on distant objects to its sides contributes to it being one of our top freshwater predators.
Frontal Binocular Vision of Bass
Bass have binocular (two-eyed, three dimensional) vision directly above and to the front of its head. This is where the two lateral fields of view overlap and where there is better depth perception. At rest it can focus forward at only roughly 5-12 inches. This binocular vision is what the bass uses to study its prey after locating it laterally then moving closer in a frontal assault before eating or attacking it. This decision is made in a matter of seconds!
Never doubt that they can see farther, 30 to 40 feet, by changing position or focus. They are also quite capable of seeing the angler above the water’s surface. Have you ever had a bass grab a bait or lure you cast just as it hit the water? It saw it coming!
Maintain a low profile, muted colored clothing and stealth when approaching an area where you expect to find bass. You can easily spook them.
Motion Detection, The Basis of Bass Vision
A bass is a visual hunter. Bass eyesight, its vision, is motion based. Motion is an indication of life which could be food. Objects that do not move are ignored as they see them as non-living things. Motion, as with most all predators, grabs its attention and is interpreted by its brain as food.
When motion is detected a bass can determine "all at the same time", the location, size, color, shape, size, flash and action of the object and do so at a substantial distance.
Size. As for size, a feeding bass, especially with age, experience and learned behavior, will be quite selective. They will seek to get the biggest reward for the least exertion of energy but experience will deter them from prey, real or artificial, that poses a threat of injury or which may be beyond its ability to handle in a struggle.
Shape. What about shape? Bass eyesight is wired to see specific shapes as food, specifically objects that are long and slender like prey fish. They evaluate shapes relative to how they fit this instinctual wiring. That may explain why they so readily attack plastic worms, though worms are not aquatic creatures and a bass might never see one in its natural habitat.
Color plays a much smaller part in catching bass than most of us think. That's not to say bass can't see colors or that they don't, on any given day, have preferences. They see best medium green and red shades and to a much lesser extent blue and purple. When these colors fall in the darker end of their shades a bass sees merely a dark object.
Color fades to dark as the available light diminishes in deeper water so play little part in catching bass. The preceding link takes you to a good explanation of color and water depth. But color in top water or shallow water lures, where there is a greater amount of light, is more important when fished in daylight.
Action relates to motion detection. Bass don't react to stationary objects as possible food. They are able to track rapidly moving objects without blurring. They tend to be excited by erratic movement rather than sustained motion as well as variations in speed. Starting and stopping, especially starts, draw strikes.
So, we'll accept this established premise and not go fan casting into the scientific concepts of visible spectrum, light scattering and absorption, wavelengths of light or the rod and cone cells of the retina of a bass' eyes. We'll limit this discussion to the basic truth that the amount of light present determines the shade and intensity of any color, in or out of water.
What matters to we bass anglers is simply this. Studies have established that bass color vision is strongest in medium to light reds, red-orange and yellow-greens. As for blues and purples it's quite weak.
When fishing, remember, the deeper the water or less clear the water, the less light and color there will be.
Let's just do a little fishing line color comparison and noodle over which fishing line color might be the least visible to bass and why. But first, let's briefly nail down what color is.
What Is Color?
When light hits objects, some of the wavelengths are absorbed and some are reflected (scattered), depending on the materials in the object. The reflected wavelengths, colors if you will, are what we receive through our eyes and process by our brain. No two people, or other creatures including fish, see colors the same way because of the different make up of the brains.
There are seven "wavelength" groups of color. They are those shown in the color chart Mr. SmallJaw is looking at above and correspond to those found in nature's rainbow. Each one, red, orange, yellow, green, blue, indigo and violet, has a different wavelength (some short some long) which determines the rapidity with which they fade or transform as light diminishes and particulate in the medium through which the light is passing increases.
For We Bass Fishermen It's Really Quite Simple
Now there are those who will lay out in intricate detail how one determines the light at specific depths by using a Seechi disk and a mathematical computation. From this you determine the best fishing line color that is the most or least visible at any depth. While this does indeed work, it's time consuming and cumbersome. I'd rather spend that time casting.
Simply put, all we bass anglers need to know is..... lots of light, lots of color; little light, little color.
For example, the rate colors transform from bright to gray or black as water deepens and available light diminishes. Note which colors fade out the quickest when water is "clear", "stained" or "muddy", and use it as your rule of thumb yardstick, for determining the best fishing line color, or worst for that matter, to use.
Early season Crappie at CJ
CJ IS LOADED WITH CRAPPIE....NICE CRAPPIE...and some HUGE CRAPPIE!
The problem is that the water is WAY TOO COLD and it continues to drop. CJ has water temps in the low 50's from the surface to about a foot below, down further in the water column it is still in the 40's....THIS IS A LATE WINTER/EARLY SPRING Pattern.
Crappie at this time are sluggish and are eating EASY and SMALL meals...MOST of them are not going to chase anything unless they get warmed up!
The best technique at this time is vertical depth fishing...THINK ICE FISHING!
They are deep, on drop-offs, or deep cover, some will move slowly looking for food. Some way up in the North end, will have a different pattern of extremes...one day the water may be warmer and they'll wake up, but it cools faster and they'll slow down quicker...shallow water has more extremes then in the main lake.
You can fish vertical like "Grandma Bluegill" with a little jig under a bobber set to depth, you just leave it set and jiggle it in front of their face...Grandma uses a meal worm to entice them even more.
You can also use minnows, other live bait, or swimbaits or lures under a bobber!
You can vertical jig without a bobber if you can control depth from a boat, or swim a swimbait or lure by controlling depth from using different weights and techniques...this is normally the hardest for people to achieve.
The main thing is that Crappie are not going to chase food at this time...they are in a mode of sustaining until the water warms, if you do not keep the bait in front of their faces, they will not bother with it.
By the looks of things this pattern is going to continue through this entire week and thru the upcoming weekend...they water is WAY BEHIND Schedule...my Dogwoods are blooming and Dandelions are seeding....the water is not where it needs to be!
Like Mike Said...once it hits the 60's at depth, is when you can throw out a piece of tin foil to catch Crappies...this is when all the "Experts" can tell you how to catch them....then after the spawn, the "Experts" disappear again, because "they just don't bite in the summer"!
During the summer, the fish are back to depth, on drop-offs, and deep cover, for cooler water...they will crush a lure if you get it close, they mainly will feed shallow from after dusk till just after dawn...then back to deeper water.
Crappie see the same color palette as Walleye...Pink, Yellow, Orange and Red spectrum...they are suckers like Walleye for Fluorescent colors of the spectrum....dark reds through blues and violet look gray to them...black is a dark CONTRAST color! Natural colors are great when you are MATCHING A HATCH...the mayfly larva when they shed are perfect examples, same with newly hatched fry.
Vibration, through a swimming tail, or blade, or spinner, help them to locate food until they see it...flash, color, and scent all can be helpful...technique varies...sometimes they want it presented slow, sometimes dying, and sometimes they want it burning through the water.
Normally if they stop biting you have alerted their "flight/fright" sense...there are still plenty of fish...change colors, change presentation, and change technique, and normally the bite will pick up again....normally they take a break from about 10-11am until 4-6pm, especially when the sun is out...if it is cloudy they may bite all day!
EARLY SPAWN TIMEFRAME
They are in the same pattern as here....the small males are building nests where-ever the BIG Males allow....At CJ, the BIG Males are normally in the best spots in about 10-12 fow. Small fish normally start spawning first, then the SLABS...People get so impatient and just throw close to the bank and catch small fish....keep throwing out to deeper water first, let it hit bottom, and slowly bring it back...bobber fish the same way.
The Big Slabs you are looking for, just like other times, will not normally associate with smaller fish and will have the BEST nesting spots WHICH ARE DEEPER!
Sometimes The BIG Slabs will feed shallow, Raid Smaller Nests, or Run off Smaller males that might be too close, or feed on fry that have just hatched....BUT, if you cast deep, make sure you stay on the bottom, you will get some BIG Fish, then bring it in shallow and do it again!
Like Doc said at the meeting...where there is manmade rip rap, the rocks extend out into the water UP TO 25 yards, some areas are less....what this does is create a line on the normal bottom. If it is preferred gravel, there may be a single rock or two, that will make a perfect Nest that the male can back into and helps him defend his nest...most of the BIG Males are in this area!
Normal Sandy or gravel areas are open and hard to defend, so smaller males will find small pockets in rocks closer to shore....most, especially in High Pressured areas NEVER get to do the deed!
But, there are so many areas that get no traffic, the Prolific Crappie continues!
INFO ABOUT CJ
Everyone understands that most people are busy, have kids, sick family members, etc, and ARE TRYING to learn the lake AND JUST CAN"T GET OUT AS OFTEN AS THEY'D LIKE...CJ can be fickle, she does not like to give up her secrets without a cost....that's why we will help anyone who wants to learn about CJ, not everyone has had the benefit of fishing CJ their entire life, or have figured out some of her secrets, or have the time to spend finding the best areas in every season or pattern....we want people to catch fish and enjoy the lake....I STILL BELIEVE THAT IF YOU LEARN THE LAKE, YOU BECOME VESTED IN IT, AND WILL HELP TO TAKE CARE OF IT! I had the luxury of meeting The guys on the thread and spent a lot of time with each...we would just sit and pick each other’s brains...what I didn't know, someone else did! We put all the pieces of the puzzle together quicker than most, and we could then understand the patterns and continue to call one another to bounce ideas or theories! Ask on this thread, how many people we have helped try to learn the lake better and if their understanding has improved...
I really didn't understand the workings of the North end that well and how it played into the rest of the lake...so I picked Doc's brain...I also picked Don's brain to help putting all of the west end in perspective...once I saw how everything worked together, it all clicked...now I can pretty much figure out patterns and where the fish are...some locations are the same so you might have to hit a few spots, but more than not you can catch what you want on any given day!
For the New Guys, let me explain what is going on....CJ is a ODNR Walleye Brood lake, what that means is that the Walleye in CJ are a Pure strain, they have no disease or defects, and CJ has perfect conditions for them to grow and prosper, the State will use them for the State stocking program....some spawning occurs at CJ but not enough to sustain a population...Walleye can be harvested during the spawning period and the eggs and sperm are taken to the hatchery to make fry and fingerlings. Sometimes they use other lakes or rivers for fry production but a Brood lake keeps it's status and Walleye are stocked every year for the fishermen also!
Back in the OLD DAYS, CJ could get upwards of 3/4 of a million fingerlings...Walleye are stocked as fingerlings because this is as big as they can be grown cheaply...at fingerling size they start eating each other if not fed massive amounts of food, SO THEY GET VERY EXPENSIVE TO KEEP ANY LONGER....Gators are voracious cannibals, they love soft rayed/finned fish and fish that have their shape...they absolutely love a nice soft shad or perch and their own smaller relatives.
The ODNR HOPES (HOPES) that out of every stocking 3% of the fingerlings survive to legal size (15 inches at CJ).
During the time BEFORE cover was placed in "THE DEAD BOWL" (what CJ was being called in her later years), over 22,500 Walleye MAY have survived every year to legal size, and to be caught by fishermen...THESE WERE THE GLORY DAYS of CJ Gator fishing....trust me, you could be a HACK FISHERMAN and catch Walleye at CJ....this is where part of the problem is coming from!
CJ took a turn for the worse after the Marina and Main boat ramp were built...they lowered the water sooo much all the vegetation/grasses, lily pads/reeds/ etc., were killed, stumps and attractors fell down or rotted, and ALOT (ALOT) of fish were flushed down the creek...this also was the time in which the natural cover had decayed...then add that all the STATE budgets were being cut due to job losses, etc, and paying for SOCIAL PROGRAMS! Everyone knows that Bitching people come before anything else and common sense seems to be lost on them! Fishing and hunting will always be one of the first things cut to pay for waste. So fishing at CJ was on a steady decline, fewer Gators, smaller fish/stunted growth, no cover, etc.
During the initial State Budget cuts (before the drops started) CJ was only getting AROUND 50,000 fingerlings, which means MAYBE 1500 survived to legal size in that year’s class....duh, and these crybabies can't figure out why their catch rates have declined!
The "Friends of CJ" and others, also had seen that the Perch Population had declined due to the loss of cover and breeding habitat...Perch lay strings of eggs over limbs, grass, etc, with flow and oxygen...so now you have less Gators, and less food, less cover, plus like on Doc's website we had some MAJOR shad kills, add on the same pressure of fishing...IT WAS THE PERFECT GATOR STORM!
WITH NO OTHER COVER IN THE LAKE, the Gators MAINLY stayed in the Mid Lake Humps...They were easy pickings for most fishermen...and fishermen BECAME LAZY, SPOILED, AND SET IN THEIR WAYS!
The Friends of CJ decide to help Gators by providing breeding cover for perch, and breeding and regular cover for other species also. We learned as we went, we found out what worked and what didn't and spent a lot of time studying and learning about other projects like this...the experience of each fisherman and knowledge of each species led to the varied cover being made and where it was added...we made a couple mistakes but most of our decisions were right on, and we have PROOF that they worked and benefitted the lake...THAT WAS THE GOAL, BENEFIT THE LAKE, AND YOU BENEFIT ALL FISHERMEN!
In the last few years, brood lakes have been allotted 100 fingerlings per acre...that's 220,000 for CJ...AND MAYBE that's 6600, per class, reaching legal size...ONE GUY told me before the drops that he used to catch a 100 Walleye a day, every time he went out (which was ALOT) and now he'll be lucky to catch 100 this year...well I'm sorry, but in years before the drops, the Walleye were like shooting fish in a barrel...Now, you might have to actually fish!
Gators Mainly feed during the DARK...this is when they have the advantage over ALL their prey, because their eyes are set up for night vision...they HATE bright sunlight...so when the sun is out they head for deep water, or humps that provide underwater shade, shady trees, vegetation, cover, anything that gets them out of the light during the day.
We have found that Gators at CJ have two distinct types of feeding behavior...Gators at night that are hunting will smash BIG lures/baits/etc, these are Gators that are actively after shad, perch, etc...these are the ones you typically can find in the shallows or areas known for perch, at night or cloudy days...then you have the Gators that are suspended or moving around during the day looking for shade as the sun moves...they will eat if a meal is easy...these are normally the light biters, that will take smaller baits, different slower techniques, etc...these fish can be finicky!
What has the cover done to CJ???
During the years before the cover drops, most of the natural cover was depleted, all of the natural vegetation was gone, and Gators pretty much only had the humps to hide in...there were a few other areas but most fishermen found the humps to be easy and productive to fish.
Now, since cover has been placed ALL-OVER the lake and VEGETATION is staring to regrow, THE GATOR HAVE NEW AREAS TO GET OUT OF THE SUN, HUNT, FEED, AND CHILL!
The BIGGEST FACTOR in the complaints, of the lack of production, from the regulars, is the fact that the WALLEY ADAPTED, AND THEY HAVE NOT!
BEFORE the cover drops the ODNR HOPED for 3% survival rate...WHAT IF THE ADDED COVER IS DOUBLING, TRIPLING, or more, the survival rate??? ...then we have gone from survival rates of HOPEFULLY 6600 Gators to 13,200 or 20,000 or more a year!
ALSO WITH THE ADDED COVER, the perch population has increased, and we haven't had a huge shad kill so the shad population IS HUGE, this has also allowed other fish food to increase....Due to all of this, WE HAVE BEEN GRANTED MORE YEARLY GATOR FINGERLINGS...TRY almost 100,000 to 200,000 more fingerlings the last couple years. Yes, for the past couple years we have been granted close to HALF a Million Gator babies!
So, because of the work put in by the FRIENDS, the population of Gators is EXPANDING!
I knew I had to adjust to the NEW LAKE, so I studied Walleye, Crappie, and Bass, I learned all their little tricks and what they liked at different times...I studied the lake, I spent time with all the knowledgeable guys in the group, I AM STILL LEARNING AND ADAPTING AT AGE 53, Heck, I've been blessed so I'll try to help anyone interested in learning! Ask any of the others who PM me, or ask questions while we fish.
IMHO, if you learn the lake, learn about your specific species, see what they like, what they like to eat, their preferred habitat, their patterns, temps they like, etc....then no matter what, you will be able to understand and game-plan for what they are doing....NORMALLY WHEN YOU DO NOT CATCH FISH, YOU (YES, YOU) ARE DOING SOMETHING WRONG!
The cover has benefitted all of the species of fish in the lake...I have seen many Golden shiners, and other Natural baitfish that I haven't seen in a long time....the Crappie Population is huge and the overall Sizes are growing...HUGE bass are coming back in numbers, IT WOULD BE NICE TO GET PEOPLE TO PUT THESE BACK IN...people are catching small flatheads and 20lb channels, and hoping to get bigger fish in greater numbers, I have personally seen and caught 18 inch shovels that about ripped the pole out of my hand...perch are back, you just aren't going to see many BIG ones since those are Preferred Gator food...THE COVER HAS BENEFITTED CJ.
Crappie and Walleye are my main passion, then Bass...you can catch any of these during their spawns with almost any technique, and lure, even foil and plastic covered paper!
A TRUE fisherman, is one who has figured out how to continue to catch them throughout the year and in any weather or condition, etc...even now, I make judgment mistakes, but when I go home and think about it, I'm the one who should have done something different but didn't think about it until later! That's how you continually learn and adapt/adjust!
I went out with a friend, to learn how to adjust my fishing to a day-time slower bite, I failed miserably with trying to catch my main target...I went home and thought about it...instead of trying to swim my swimmer, I should have been jigging it, since it was a day time slower bite...next time out, with another buddy who fishes the same way as the first, I jigged the swimmers and it was perfect...Ask anyone, I experiment all the time...that's another way you learn...if a newer swimmer comes out that is better and MY PREFERRED brand does not adapt/adjust, then I'll switch...I'll soon be trying the Z-Man line of New swimmers...I love their plastic.
I already switched from Daiwa Samurai Braid to Seaguar Tourney Braid because their 20lb is half the size of any other...I switched from regular jig heads to sickles and double collars, due to better hookup, sharper points, and ability to straighten and re-bend many times, and they don't tear plastics up as bad.
My favorite rods and reels don't come close to 100 bucks (together) and yes I have a high $$ set-up and it catches the same fish my cheap budget gear catches...heck, I use spincasts still, cause they are just so easy to use...the main thing is that you have to learn how to make that lure fit your fishing, and transform it into something a fish wants to eat or kill.
Why swimbaits???
Lures are categorized into different ways they can make a fish react...some vibrate, some smell, some shine, are brightly colored, etc, etc, etc....fish have various senses that help them find food...a fisherman must affect those senses to get a fish to react.
I had all the various tackle boxes full of stuff for every species I fished for, Heck, I was making fishing expensive and confusing!
I sat down and decided to cut back....I basically asked myself what do fish mainly eat??...answer, other fish...so I set out to find a fake fish that other fish would eat!
Trust me, I tried every make and model of swimbaits from the US and overseas, and still continue to do so, when I think one is worthy... I trialed, tested, and did write ups for 4 different lure makers...so I know EXACTLY what I wanted and needed!
The one I chose had many of the fish reaction keys...color, smell, vibration, shape (water displacement), etc...and it can be used in MANY VARIOUS techniques!
You can swim them, twitch, make them die, act like a crawdad, worm, rig them in every manner possible, and for any condition...now my tackle box is a small plastic pack I carry....with a box in my basement with Extras...nothing else...I can use them from the bank, or from a boat, and all throughout the year...AND IF THEY EVER STOP WORKING, I WILL ADAPT AND ADJUST TO FIND SOMETHING ELSE.
Fishing is easy??
Water is wet, so are fish...they bite when it rains, when it's cloudy, when the water is rough, etc....also when the sun is out...if you aren't catching fish, YOU ARE THE CAUSE, you are not finding the keys...Keys like water temps which MOVE and SCATTER FISH OR DRAW THEM places, same with other keys...if you aren't catching fish, THEN MOVE...think about what YOU are missing! FISH ARE PREDICTABLE TO THEIR KEYS...WATER TEMP IS THE MOST BASIC, then food, oxygen content, shade or protective cover, etc, etc!
Fish also have cliques...most BIG fish eat small fish...normally if you are catching small fish...MOVE...small fish and Big fish don't normally associate...easy huh!
Yes BIG fish may move in...but are you going to wait your whole day to find out...NORMALLY you have missed a key or they are in a same area just in a different location.
We have been in 10 locations on the lake with the same kind of cover and finally found the BIG fish we were looking for....sometimes when bank fishing you don't have the time or can't move as easily, so it can be tougher...IMHO, if you have become a consistently good bank fisherman, you will never have a problem in a boat, because you already have things figured out...as a bank fisherman, your educated guesses have to be right, or you and PEPE LE PEW are going to be good friends!
If you are willing to learn, all you have to do is ask questions to anyone who is part of this thread...you won't get many honey holes but you will get knowledge to catch fish...REMEMBER the saying about "giving a man a fish"!!
So, the next time you hear someone complaining about cover and not willing to ask questions or learn...Don't be like me...just smile and wish them the best...because you know that the POOR COVER is not causing their problems or hurting the lake! THEY ARE THEIR OWN PROBLEM!
CJ and other man made water retention lakes throughout Ohio fall into 2 categories....those that were just dammed up and flooded, including everything left on the land, such as trees, posts, foundations, bridges, brick structures, etc. A "Forward Thinking" person did this to serve 2 purposes, water retention and fishing!
Then another type of water retention lake was built by an "idiot"!
They bulldozed the area clean...and dammed it! Then later they said "oops" and tried to make a fishing lake out of it!
CJ is the latter...MOST OF CJ IS BULLDOZED CLEAN!
Over the years, CJ developed a Very Nice Vegetation cover in the coves around the lake...that and the Rip-Rap (Big Rocks) that were added to stabilize the Dam and other areas gave fish limited places to hide in Shallow water...Shallow North End Middle of the lake was barren, as well as the entire South end, with mostly "humps" in the middle!
When the Marina was built the lake was lowered....most of the vegetation died! When the lake was lowered to build the New Boat ramp, ALL of the vegetation died!
The ODNR does not want vegetation back due to the outcry of $$$boaters, who camp out and swim in the coves, EVEN THOUGH THIS IS ILLEGAL!
CJ has PERFECT vegetation coves, AND FLATS, the shallow coves AND FLATS, lead out directly to deep water where vegetation will not grow!
The ODNR states that the vegetation will die due to the yearly 3 foot drawdown’s...BUT IT NEVER DID BEFORE, IT FLOURISHED....UNTIL MASSIVE DRAWDOWNS for the Marina and MBR!
SO HOW DOES THIS ALL TIE IN???
Man creates imbalances in Nature...various species of fish, lay different amounts of eggs due to their genetics and habitat evolution!
A mature Walleye may lay half a million eggs, but none will hatch if conditions aren't perfect...they are probably the most sensitive to what they need for spawning....
They spawn in CJ, but survival of eggs to fry is low...not self sustaining...so they have to be stocked.
Walleye are stocked in CJ because of the food base of Shad and deeper water that helps with survival rate, Walleye also need a higher level of Oxygen than most fish, and cannot survive in bathwater.
The Army COE and ODNR could help the Walleye situation at CJ, by throwing out the old ANTIQUATED Water Retention "Rules of Engagement" and either keep the water level up or raise it earlier to allow the Walleye up in the creeks to spawn. Modern technology allow better forecasts than in the 70's, but that's another debate!
Most of us that have been up there know that there are suitable areas, and Walleye do spawn successfully when things time out perfect.
CJ used to get MASSIVE amounts of Walleye FRY that were stocked yearly, But as SOCIAL PROGRAMS grew, ODNR budgets were slashed and along with that the VORACIOUS appetites of the 500,000-750,000 fingerlings that used to be stocked.
In the early 2000's, CJ was getting 50,000 or 60,000 and people couldn't understand why the fishing declined?
THAT'S ALSO WHEN THE FISHING BEGAN TO SUFFER DUE TO ALL THESE CIRCUMSTANCES TOGETHER!
Crappie, Bluegill, and Channels are reproducing nightmares, they have to be managed...you manage then by eating them or other predators eating them...if you take Predators out of the equation then you are "Out Of Balance"! Fish will stunt and the sizes people want are VERY hard to find.
You are seeing stunted Channels and Bluegill right now! This comes more into play later!
Perch (A GATORS BEST FRIEND)...loss of breeding habitat (vegetation) almost wiped out the perch population, and it is SLOW to get back...Most people and GATORS love BIG perch! They are "FEW and FAR between"!
White Bass, LOVE THEM OR HATE THEM, they are DEMONIC LITTLE STRIPERS. Try them on an UL, dang things battle to the end!
They are considered "Trash Fish" because they eat "JUNK"..when I heard that I laughed...these things eat anything that moves, they follow schools of shad in open water like Tuna in the ocean....they also take Crappie fry, Catfish fry, Bluegill fry, any fry...and they are also loved food for WALLEYE!
They spawn mainly in creeks...with the COE playing it's antiquated game of chance, People catching hundreds in the creek and just throwing them up on the bank to rot, and terrible spawns, the White Bass Population is WAAAYYY down!
Largemouth....they are mainly fringe Predators...hiding in ambush, they take out mainly Bluegill, Crappie, Cats, anything that will fit in its mouth...normally in deeper lakes it will not run into shad that often, so it's diet relies more on other baitfish or game fish species closer to shore!
Smallies...in CJ they can be anywhere, but normally prefer smaller or longer (perch, etc) prey than Largemouth.
The problems here is that they both normally only lay 2,000 eggs per lb, and most research agrees that in Northern lakes with decent cover, the survival rate can be as low as 1 PERCENT surviving to LEGAL size.
ALSO, the Northern Strain Largemouth grows ALOT slower than the Florida strain down South.
NOW, with NO cover, Vegetation destruction, REMOVAL of APEX PREDATORS, Poaching, and everything else man does, you can start to understand how things get so out of wack, and a fishery can suffer!
Bass, besides being fun to catch, help provide equilibrium of populations of other species, when you continue taking BIG breeders or reduce an already small population due to habitat loss, you effect the entire balance of the lake, River, Pond, etc.
We saw a huge increase of Dink Bluegill, Dink Crappie, Dink Channels, huge schools of shad, etc, all due to the Loss of Walleye fingerlings, Bass Habitat, and WB spawning...plus the increased fishing pressure of those Predator populations.
People need to realize that you can't just continue to take the Predator base out without destroying the population balance.
Take all the Crappie, Bluegill, and Channels you want...plus carp for those that enjoy them....but we are trying to build a Bass Population at CJ so it is healthy. Five pounders that can lay 10,000 or more eggs are needed in the lake to grow that population!
We can stabilize Walleye because they are mostly AWAY from the banks, where bank fishing pressure is constant throughout the year, and normally their feeding times are scheduled in darkness in the summer.
Bass are hungry or pissed off anytime...and they are leaving CJ in droves during the day and night!
We are seeing results from helping CJ with cover...we have used it to draw Bass away from fishermen, Bass away from Walleye fingerlings...Cover locations to draw Walleye to different areas, perch breeding cover, etc..now we are getting a few more Walleye Fingerlings...but our continual efforts must be to grow the entire fishery...CJ needs It's vegetation back..."Mother Nature" needs to start spitting seeds and putting plants back where they belong, to get the needed balance of all Predators back!
AND people need to be taught or learn how to balance the fishery so we all can enjoy it! Take legal Crappie, Take Bluegill, Take eater Channels, take carp, take yourself a few Gators or WB...Catch and release struggling predators, or Large fish (LOTS OF EGGS) until they build up and then they can be managed!
Help Build Cover, or give back to the lake, we're all in this together, WE HAVE MADE A DIFFERENCE!
Sometimes now fish are becoming solitary due to the amount of cover, sometimes you'll see 1 fish (Walleye, Crappie, Or Bass), by one isolated rock...normally this is just one Big fish. Smaller fish tend to school together in cover for protection.
Normally Big fish will feed ONLY AT NIGHT and they go lay in the shade during the day, then they'll move around and feed if nothing swims by their spot.
Some fish will pick resting areas close to "Highways" or feeding areas. In the animal kingdom, the idea is to feed as much as possible, with the least amount of expended energy, get as big as possible, and mate once a year, then eat, rest, grow, and stay out of Brent's freezer!
It was VERY interesting to go out with some experts on the subject, during recent tournaments, to actually see what they look for!
They pointed out EXACTLY what you are asking about...we found HUGE single Walleye, Crappie, and Bass, laying in shallow water in the shade by 1 rock, 1 stump, and nothing else close by. We also found them the same way in deeper water....the main thing seemed to be shade or shadows during sunny days...they tended to move around more or cloudy days....we also found different species using these single structures on different days!
Then again, at CJ, BIG FISH seem to work with the White Bass, they tend to take on a Pelagic (roaming) trait...we have found that the BIG Fish will continue to keep schools of shad near, they will follow UNDER the shad and take one or two whenever they are hungry...then what they are really waiting on, is when the White Bass feed...White Bass will normally hit a school of shad hard and injure or wound as many as possible, then circle and collect the injured or wounded fish...YOUNG WB seem to enjoy the massacre, and they tend to forget to feed right away and continue the hunt and wounding shad....BIG FISH, and I mean BIG Walleye, Crappie, Smallmouth, Kitties, etc, sit under the schools and eat all the EASY FOOD possible.
When You find a school of feeding WB...put on a heavy jig and swimbait and get it through the WB to deeper water columns under the feeding WB...you work the swimbait with twitches, etc, make it look injured or dying...and you'll be amazed what you can catch while the WB are feeding!
Been a lot of talk lately about proper catch and release of Crappie and also questions about Crappie in general….we have a lot of Knowledgeable Crappie guys on here to help out!
Even though Crappie reproduce in great numbers, a bad spawn due to weather or other factors can hurt a year’s class of fish, a couple bad years, and things can start to drop off….if you are losing a lot of fish to the fryer, and dead fish from fishermen, plus bad spawns, the Crappie fishery can suffer…. And if you are trying to grow a healthy population of larger fish and a nice Crappie fishery, a few key ideas need to be shared and followed, so you don’t have a lot of floaters, or damage to populations on heavily pressured lakes or areas!
Proper Catch and release….if you are out for fun and not looking to get a mess for the fryer… and you are going to release crappie that you catch, there are a few things to keep in mind.
*Just as with a Bass, DO NOT hold the fish horizontal by the jaw…Don’t torque the bottom jaw down at any time, you can injure, dislocate, and even break the fishes jaw.
If you are taking pictures, you can hold the fish by the bottom lip and let him dangle straight down, or hold them by the lip and support the belly, to hold it horizontal.
*Make sure your hands are wet, if you are going to grab or hold the fish by the body….the protective slim coat on the fish is its defense against parasites, disease, etc. Also try not to let it flop around on the boat, use absorbent gloves, towels, etc, to hold them….removal of the slime coat is just taking chances with the fish’s survival.
* If a fish is deep or gut hooked, don’t just rip it out. If you can’t get it out with hemostats or needle-nose, try the procedure of going through the gill plates, pay attention to not damage the gills. If all else fails then cut the line as close to the hook as possible and hopefully Mother Nature will “Find A Way”!
One Point I want to make…if you are continually gut hooking a crappie, then IMHO you are using way to small of a hook, and your technique needs some work! J
I cannot remember the last time I have had a gut hooked fish….I use a #1 Sickle Hook jig head for smaller swimbaits and when they are really feeding, I use a 1/0 sickle jig head for the BIG BOY swimbaits. The hook is either in the corner of the mouth or roof of the mouth 99.9% of the time. Other guys use different size lures or hooks with the same success rates, so ask questions if you are having problems or if you need more info! When a Crappie is in BIG BOY FEEDING MODE, it is going to inhale a small bait and hook…there are times when a Crappie is feeding small, but those are normally in COLD WATER periods.
Using microscopic hooks/jigs/lures meant for Bluegill etc, is just asking for problems if you are going to C&R Crappie.
Now, if you are just catching fish for the table….NO ISSUES!
Ice fishing is a whole different technique…Crappie at this time are looking for that small meal they don’t have to work for, and most are going home to the fryer anyway. But still if you catch small fish or C&R, the same precautions apply…and don’t just throw them down on the ice and then try to throw them back in later.
The small fish you put back in, are going to be your next year’s keepers, so take care of your resource!
For those newbie’s that don’t know yet, like our old “OCEAN ANGLER”…A MALE White Crappie will turn Black during the spawn, but, Male Black Crappies do not change colors!
The only sure way to tell the difference between a White and a Black crappie are by counting Dorsal Spines…A White will have 5-6 Dorsal spines, and a Black will have 7-8.
NORMALLY, comparing two same aged/growth rate fish, White Crappie are longer and Black Crappie are thicker/taller/more compressed. Both put on weight at the same rates.
The biggest differences between the two are where they like to live and what they like to MAINLY eat.
Black Crappie prefer fewer fish in their diets, they eat more insects, crustaceans, invertebrates, and larva….Whites like more Sushi.
Black Crappie also prefer little or no current, and clearer water with more vegetation with mud or sandy bottoms…these are areas their primary food likes also.
Movements of both are seasonal, they use the same migration routes year after year, and they migrate following structure, using channels, drop-offs, river beds, sunken trees, rocks, edge lines, etc.
We have managed to disrupt many of the old patterns by adding all of the cover, now you are seeing the new patterns staring, and A LOT of deviation from the old! This is really going to come into effect with the next few classes of fish and the new spawns…their patterns will revolve around all of the new stuff that has been added.
Once Crappie find a suitable environment for that particular season and pattern, they will remain until conditions change to a new season and pattern. They may hold tighter to nearby cover or suspend, etc, but unless something drastic happens, they are staying put in the seasonal area! THIS IS ALSO WHY YOU CAN OUT-FISH AN ENTIRE AREA LIKE THE MARINA, OR AREAS OF COVER!
Fight…
People complain that Crappie do not fight???
First you have to understand that Crappie have 2 main feeding patterns in the summer….You also have to remember that most of the time you are fishing for Crappie, your time to fish and their time to eat are totally different.
Crappie like most fish are trying to stack the odds in their favor when hunting….their preferred time to hunt is in the early morning or during darkness, I believe the early morning fish didn’t fare so well at the night’s hunt oe get full enough! …..They will also feed during cloudy/dark gloomy days. Crappie have a MAJOR advantage because of their superior eyesight AND NIGHT VISION!
Fish that are feeding at this time just SMASH a swimbait or lure….they hit that lure with everything they have….and then put up a great fight for their size.
When the sun is out they are chillin’, looking for shade, or just waiting until they have the advantage over the prey again…fish at this time will eat, but most of the time you have to present it properly or drop it right on their noses…STILL, sometimes you cannot get them to bite.
These can be the times when they are finicky…. if they have full bellies, your offering has to be A SERIOUSLY EASY MEAL…AT THESE TIMES, Crappie can barely nudged a bait, they taste it, look it over, and gently take it in….then they may fight, shake their head once or twice, or surfboard right to you!
Of course, these are basic guides and other circumstances come into play…hopefully some of the other CRAPPIE GUYS will chime in.
During the Spawn, it is a whole different ballgame…there are A LOT of Professionals running around then, each has a magic bait, color, or technique!
I never try to help someone to become a Crappie fisherman at this time…every lure and technique known to man, works….and you can get into bad habits that will frustrate you for the rest of the year.
Just because you caught every Crappie Possible during the Spring Doesn’t mean a thing the rest of the year….the rest of the year determines if you are a Crappie fisherman or not!
I tried to explain this to a couple guys once….they said I was full of it…..so I caught a 9 inch crappie on a 5 inch swimbait, and actually was catching same sized crappie on the 5.8 inch swimmers most of the day ….this last spawn I was catching crappie on a piece of plastic and paper on my jig head, just to prove my point (Pics are posted below)….I could have fished all day long with the plastic and paper and caught fish….these guys kept telling me they were experts and I had to use certain things that they were using or I wouldn’t be able to catch fish like them! I never see these people out the rest of the year…but, when you do they say one thing….”The Crappie just aren’t biting today”!...amazing isn’t it!
We gotta find you a job you can do with one eye..Hey it's official put Lil Suzy on Crags LIstt tonight
first come get it
CJP
help need a trailer for a 16' deep v. My cross members is cracked in two (both of them)
CJP
Could it be welded ? Send me a pm on this as I might be able to help.Quote:
Originally Posted by cjpolecat