Skip, I only hope as this tying thingy goes along I can gleen from some of the master tiers..here...I'm not much...tying for 4 or 5 years now, (got to have my glasses on while working) but some of the guys here are dog nuts crazy good!!! I've already got tiers block....lol just a green horn tier... but I'll break out! Thanks for everyones kindness!