BobB thank you sir!! Well depending on where you are at we might not be that far away!!!! I am still debating on a 9,10 or 12. That is a ton of money for a fish finder and i dont always get out as much as i want. I know i want something that will be around a long time and i hope the helix series wont go away in short term and as much tech as i can upfront. Do u know if anyone makes maps for rivers and is there a way to figure out what maps come with the finder. Dont want to order maps until i know what i have. Thanks for any help we normaly use the cheep finders just for depth.