I talked to Willie yesterday and he said he was just a chunkin it out there and a slow retreive about 4 feet deep. I told him I used an orange headed crappie thunder with a chart body and tail doing the same thing and NOTHING.. even tried it under a slip cork with a slow retrieve. He seemed like a nice enough fellow and told me next time I am there and he is "on em" to pull right up beside him and help him out.