Thread: Catch and Release during the annual spawn ?

Time for a few facts of life about the colony nesting sunfishes including bluegills, shellcrackers and crappies.

1. Virtually all the fry that survive from any colony of nests comes from the center nests in those beds. Virtually 100% of the fry from the edge nests perish.

2. Those center nests are dominated by the largest male fish in that breeding population; so harvesting them is killing off the prime male members of that population.

3. The biggest females actively seek to spawn in those center beds combining the best of the males with the best of the females. The largest females also produce orders of magnitude more eggs of higher quality than the smallest females.

4. Those fish too old to spawn rapidly deteriorate and die off in nature almost never surviving between spawning seasons once age deterioration sets in. There is no extended decrepancy period for these fish in the wild. Either they continue to be healthy enough to able to spawn abundantly or they die off quickly.

If you take the biggest fish off the beds, you are not only harvesting the highest quality breeders in that population, you are harvesting those not only most likely to be successful at it you are eliminating the selective pressure for that species to reach its maximum size in that particular water.

Because there is one other factor. Male fish in these species will extend their juvenile period until they are large enough to compete with the biggest fish in the population for those prime central nesting spots in the breeding colony. Females grow to match the male sizes available. There is a natural pressure to maximize the size of these fishes that the local water can produce, unlesss the biggest are harvested regularly. Only humans concentrate on the top sizes; virtually all other predation on these fishes is most heavily on the smallest sizes available from larvae to fry to juveniles, and the juveniles need the life expectancy periods necessary to grow to sufficient size adults to have a chance to dominate the local breeding colonies.

Up here it may take a bluegill for example some 7 or 8 years to reach 10" or about a pound. Most of that time will be spent as an immature fish, since they stop growing for the most part once they become sexually mature. To reach bull bluegill size they must have extended juvenile periods to do it in. That is despite the fact that without the standards of size presented by the presence of larger fish all of the colony breeding sunfishes can mature very rapidly. Once they do you have a breeding colony of younger smaller fish. That is far more often the case when all there is are small fish than stunting due to overpopulation, except in ponds where potential for growth is limited unless carefully cultured. Pond fish are very close to being domesticates in fact. In most larger waters they will over time naturally produce the largest size in the size structure when the largest fish are not removed as dominant breeders and will reestablish that quite naturally if harvest of those large size is curtailed sufficiently.

Even catch and release of nesting males results in the total loss of any eggs or larvae that might have already been present. Those of the larger fish will have been the highest quality offspring in the colony and the most likely recruitment potential for maintaining that size will then also be lost. Catch and release of the females around the colony and at their concentration points will cause much less damage, since the females do not brood the fry, and brooding the fry is vital to any chance of their survival. Personally I want the best males to have the best chance to give the highest quality fry the best possible start. If I start taking breeding condition males, especially crappie males, I will back off and look for other places and/or other species to fish for.

I avoid fishing the nesting colonies of crappies and sunfish. That is when I will turn to catfish or walleyes or perch until the nests are left behind, although I will fish catch and release for the females, if I can sort out the distinct areas they are assembling in without disturbing the nesting males. I will certainly never point out an active bed that is being overlooked by others.

To me it is a matter of protecting the highest quality breeding stock in the waters I fish. Not that I do not love eating fresh fish and crappies are the best there is. I handle those few meals I actually harvest as special treats, and those come at other times of the year.

I certainly cannot say that anybody MAY not or even should not fish when and where it is legal for whatever numbers of whatever quarry they may legally take, but to me that is the maximum limit one may push out of respect for the quarry not an admonition to maximize one's harvest. The limits are in fact set with the assumption that many if not most anglers will not fill them out completely on every trip. A great many will not do that on any but the rarest of occasions. Those who can need to be much more careful to harvest selectively IMO, but that is attitude on my part not legal limitation. The law gives the rights; it is up each individual how much of those rights one wishes to exercise at any given point. Overdo it, even legally, and you will find crappie size declining and your local state conservation department will inevitable reduce the limits and/or clamp on size restrictions. That is happening all over the country.

Originally Posted by jusanothajoe

agree with some of your comments. but I hope it doesnt become like bass fishing where it is a SIN to keep a fish to eat.
I think 10" and 20 limit would be good. I start catching fish with eggs in them in Jan-Feb, am I suppose to throw them back all spring ? How bout if you want to catch and release you go ahead and if i want to keep some to eat or heaven forbid put in the feezer thats OK too , just dont PUSH C & R on everyone. I might keep 30 this trip and throw them ALL back for the next 3 trips, I follow game laws and thats good enough for me. also dont want to sound mean but some blame poor fishing skills on over harvest. " I cant catch any so they must be all caught out" How about bass fishing ? it is almost ALL catch and release. been bass fishin lately ? in my area if you catch 5 you have had a good day. If the catch and release theory means you catch more shouldnt you be able to catch more bass ?

I propose that we release females only 1 or 2 weeks each year, as I outlined in my post under the thread " Guntersville turned on Big Time ". I like to eat crappie too, I also keep some in my freezer as well. I would never suggest not eating crappie. My home lake is Weiss Lake, and I have been fishing the lake since 1960. I have seen the good times and the bad, that all lakes go through over the years. Droughts, fishing pressure, declining water quality, loss of habitat, poor spawns, fast changing water levels etc; all have hurt Weiss Lake over the years. Anything we can do to help restore Weiss Lake is worthy of consideration, and to practice catch and release for one or two weeks a year would let more crappie spawn and make those other 50 weeks better. I don't propose lower limits or changing the size limit, which is now 10", because we only have one Game Warden to oversee all of Cherokee County - fishing and hunting - and enforcement is lacking now. Changing the rules would not help due to lack of enforcement. Now most crappie never make it to the back of creeks and bays to spawn on Weiss anymore, because the fishing pressure is so great with the thousands of anglers that fish Weiss every year and use the long line trolling technique to catch suspended fish before they get to spawn. Catch and release, on a voluntary basis, for one or two weeks each year seems like a small price to pay if it will improve the crappie population. If we don't do something, I guess the thousands of anglers that now fish Weiss can start fishing Neely Henry, Logan Martin, and Guntersville ??? If this idea offends, I apologize, but it is better than doing nothing - in my opinion.

Originally Posted by twhaley

Pop, Any you catch just bring them on over to my house I'll release them -- in hot peanut oil and we will both be happy!

Terry,

Only if I can stay and eat some too....

my question to pop is , when would the 2 weeks be, the only problem i see with this is if you set a 2 week period, the air temps may drop to 30 during this time, or the lake levels bottom out or due to flooding go over the sea walls and the fishing will drop off and the people will come in after the time slot and catch them any ways . and would you set the time when the fish are in the coves getting ready to go in, or would you set it earlier when they catch a bunch off the main river ledges. just my thoughts.

I think a slot limit is a good idea. If we released some outside of say 9 through 13 inch and let those big ole females and males go I think we would make a difference.

Originally Posted by sailfish1

my question to pop is , when would the 2 weeks be, the only problem i see with this is if you set a 2 week period, the air temps may drop to 30 during this time, or the lake levels bottom out or due to flooding go over the sea walls and the fishing will drop off and the people will come in after the time slot and catch them any ways . and would you set the time when the fish are in the coves getting ready to go in, or would you set it earlier when they catch a bunch off the main river ledges. just my thoughts.

Yes, timing would be important. Currently, Alabama Power is supose to hold the water level steady on Weiss Lake for 2 weeks, at the peak of annual spawn, determined by their fisheries biologist and/ or State fisheries biologist; wheather it is done correctly or not - I don't know. Therefore, the annual 1 or 2 week time for my proposed catch and release would be set on short notice each year to co-inside with their chosen dates. Local Chamber of Commerce, Motels, Guides, Radio, and local newspapers would have to work together to get the word out on short notice. We could also place signs at all ramps. Not a perfect solution, but at least an effort.

One other possible idea is to install " NO FISHING - Restricted Area " bouys in the backs of several spawning coves and move them around every couple of years.
I have seen these on Kentucky Lake, close to Mansard's Resort. I don't know if they have produced good results or not ? Just another idea. Does anyone one know much about the " Restricted Area " bouys. The ones I saw had dates ( such as Restricted Area - No Motorcraft - April thru. May ) or something like this ?
The bouys may be intended to keep jet skies and wave runners out of spawning coves during the spawn ?
Maybe some of our Kentucky Lake members can educate us on the bouys ?

some of our bays up here above chattanooga are no fishing from nov1-march1 because of the bird sanctuary and you cant get out of the main channel bouy's then either. i really dont know if it helps or hurts, but the open bays are really hammered at this time, when the others opens, the pressure evens out somewhat. but i have noticed you will still have some guys with limits and some only catch 4 or 5 . one thing that is different down there is you do have alot of people fishing from the docks and piers and up here you wont find nowhere near that many.and when you guys have a fish fry please let me know and i will come down

POP, you didnt offend me and I hope I didnt offend you. just stating my opinion also. cant speak to Weiss never fished there. My home lake Lay Lake gets alot of pressure from bass fishermen not so much crappie fishermen.