Kick in the gut Guys!

I have been seeing the vast majority of reports here about the poor condition our crappie on KY Lake are in. Regardless of what anybody else says, when you clean crappie after crappie and there is absolutely NOTHING in the stomachs and the fillets are paper thin, there has to be something BAD going on.

These pics are from Monday's guide trip. This 14 inch fish was the 1st fish I've cleaned in 2 weeks that had anything in the stomach. I noticed something hard and figured it might be a large bug or maybe a shell. Nope, it was a rock!!!! I have witnesses to this.

I don't have the answer why the crappie are in such poor condition. I know what I'm seeing with my own eyes. I have a good idea of what I think is happening but I don't have volumes of data to back up my ideas.

The 2nd fish is a 15 incher that was no more than 3/4 of an inch thick and the fillets were paper thin. I have never seen eggs in a crappie in April that look like this.

BTW, I've been asked several times if I am attending the F&W meeting Thursday. No, I have nothing to say that they want to hear.

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Originally Posted by mrdux

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Omg. That's not good at all. Those eggs don't look good. If there no shad or baitfish in their tummy. What they eating??? Are they even eating young of the year Asian carp?? Please enlighten us on your take???

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I think the competition for plankton is being won by the carp. The fry of shad, panfish, bass and crappie are left with scraps. The water on LBL side is very clear so IMO there is no plankton out yet. The fry of the Asians grow so fast there doesn’t seem to be an extended period of time that fish the size of crappie can prey on them. Since the carp spawn multiple times per year, maybe the starving crappie can survive long enough to get back in shape on the small carp.
That’s my take for what it’s worth.


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I think many crappie like the one in bottom pics aren’t going to be capable of producing a productive spawn because they have come out of winter in such terrible shape.


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Im with you on this Doug, Ive attended a few of these meetings and all i ever hear is that these fish are dying of old age, Its absolutely ridiculous that 5 years ago you could catch fish that was 14 inches long that weighed 1.75 to 2.0 pound and now i seen with my own eyes a fish caught in big sandy that was 14 inches long that weighed .70 pounds and all they can say is these fish are at the end of there life cycle. I understand that this has most likely already reached a point that the state of Ky. does not have the resources to combat the problem on there own but at least be honest about what the real problem is here. I would hope that at some point our politicians could just forget that they have a D or R beside there name and come together to help us fight this problem before it destroys the economy on this end of the state. Ive already heard talk within people fishing tournaments on Ky Lake that they no longer want to come here, and ive heard people talk about not wanting to hold any more tournaments here, this could be detrimental to the econmy in this area. I will not be attending the meeting either as every one of them ive attended i hear the same thing over and over while at the same time the problem continues to get worse.

I hate to say this. You can’t just give up and quit going to the meetings cause you do need to fight this and your DNR needs to have the opposing views IF anything is ever going to get done. You already are seeing the results first hand. does your DNR know these results? Take the pics with you and anything else you have. I envy You guys in Kentucky as at least your having meetings where here in Indiana we have none. At least the door is still open for discussion. How else are you going to keep the information flowing? If you stop going to the meetings your DNR May stop having any discussions and giving out info. They need people at the meeting. Just my 2cents, but you have to keep venting. They do work for you and it’s your taxes that fund them.

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Originally Posted by cevans

I hate to say this. You can’t just give up and quit going to the meetings cause you do need to fight this and your DNR needs to have the opposing views IF anything is ever going to get done. You already are seeing the results first hand. does your DNR know these results? Take the pics with you and anything else you have. I envy You guys in Kentucky as at least your having meetings where here in Indiana we have none. At least the door is still open for discussion. How else are you going to keep the information flowing? If you stop going to the meetings your DNR May stop having any discussions and giving out info. They need people at the meeting. Just my 2cents, but you have to keep venting. They do work for you and it’s your taxes that fund them.

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I envy Kentucky as well. I know I’m probably not in the loop in Tennessee, but I have heard no talk concerning this issue. If there are meetings then they are doing a great job of keeping tight lips. At least y’all do have a guy in your state forum that seems to keep people abreast of issues. Tennessee’s forum is a ghost town.


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MR, I'm sure will be correct on what you say at the meeting, they don't want to here it. I again, am worried you and most of the people out at KY and Barkley will ONLY be noted as he Asian Carp capital of the world in the next year or so. This may be OK if the tourist industry can play a 'spin' on this notoriety. I plan to come down in May to do some pan fishing, Bluegill mostly. I Just hope they hold up for the future along with the Crappie, but, from what you just revealed, it does no look good.
Later, Jim

Hey guys, sorry if I’ve somehow given the impression that crappie weights weren’t down. Or that they weren’t down due to baitfish being down. They are down, and it is due to the predator prey ratio being unbalanced. Bass weights are also down. Has the competition with Asian carp affected our gizzard shad? Certainly. Are crappie weights the lowest they’ve ever been? No. This does not mean that we don’t have a problem, but it does mean that I’m not panicking. Carp are the biggest threat we have by far which is why controlling their population is a huge priority.

I am always interested in the opinions and concerns of anglers regardless of whether I want to hear it or not.

This topic will be a major component of the meeting on Thursday evening.

As for egg condition, there is some precedent for reduced egg production when fish are starving or stressed. It’s one of the theories for “density dependent population control”. It’s never really been proven in crappie, (they tend to overpopulate if given the chance so they at least aren’t very good at controlling their own population numbers). The average ky lake crappie female has about 120,000 eggs. (Less than the average Asian carp which usually has about 200,000 in other populations. not really sure where the 1 million number came from...). It doesn’t take many crappie eggs, but it does take the right conditions.

As for carp spawning and crappie eating them, we still haven’t observed any individuals in the lake from a 2016 or 2017 year class of carp, although we know from carp egg weights that they at least attempted to spawn. The 2015 year class is still extremely abundant unfortunately. They need high flows to spawn and unfortunately this year looks like a high flow year. We absolutely do not need another successful carp spawn in the rivers or the lake so I’m really hoping this rain calms down before water temps rise. If anyone observes small carp in stomachs or cast nets please take a photo. This information is crucial.

Hopefully those that are interested will be able to make it out to the meeting to discuss carp efforts and other issues. If not, send me an email or give me a call anytime to discuss the issues. Apologies to those who felt they weren’t being heard.
-Adam

South of paris landing bridge i think the weights were worse last year.Everyone was catching numbers though,most dont complain when cathing though.I think the fish look better so far this year from what im seeing,but not catching numbers this year.I actully caught some of the biggest summer fish ever pulling cranks in july last year.Im sure the carp are hurting the fishing ,but unsure of the extent.Wish tn would do more,havent heard of them doing anything.would like to say thanks to you and the effort ky has made to help slow them down.

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My buddy told me they've been opening the locks on the Kentucky River to let pleasure boaters from Frankfort thru to the Ohio river. Apparently they forgot the Asian carp could get thru too.
Glad to see this nation's natural resources are such a priority. /sarcasmfont

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Originally Posted by CrappieDontTap

My buddy told me they've been opening the locks on the Kentucky River to let pleasure boaters from Frankfort thru to the Ohio river. Apparently they forgot the Asian carp could get thru too.
Glad to see this nation's natural resources are such a priority. /sarcasmfont

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They have been doing it for about 3 years now all the way up to Lock 5. They are here in the Frankfort pools. Seen them last years. Plans are to open locks again all the way up. For pleasure boaters. So IF they stooped them at Lock 5 in Lawrenceburg it wont be long they will be all the way the Ky River and tributaries.

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Originally Posted by Pan Fish

They have been doing it for about 3 years now all the way up to Lock 5. They are here in the Frankfort pools. Seen them last years. Plans are to open locks again all the way up. For pleasure boaters. So IF they stooped them at Lock 5 in Lawrenceburg it wont be long they will be all the way the Ky River and tributaries.

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Pleasure boaters have been going thru the locks for decades, as I have been thru there myself on more than one occassion.

Besides, are the Asian carp targeting the pleasure boats as the only way to get thru the locks?
There is barge traffic 24 hours a day thru these locks, plenty of opportunity for them to escape to the other side.

As the corps would say, that these waters are not for fisheries, but for flood control. It's getting that way very quickly....

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In my opinion, I'd say if you're gonna fish public waters in Kentucky you'll have to live with Asian carp.
It's seems like another issue our govt has failed us on.
Thank the Lord that I've still got a few private farm ponds to go to.

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Originally Posted by bandchaser

Pleasure boaters have been going thru the locks for decades, as I have been thru there myself on more than one occassion.

Besides, are the Asian carp targeting the pleasure boats as the only way to get thru the locks?
There is barge traffic 24 hours a day thru these locks, plenty of opportunity for them to escape to the other side.

As the corps would say, that these waters are not for fisheries, but for flood control. It's getting that way very quickly....

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From Lock 5 and above been closed for a few years now. They have been working on 5 and 6 last year to reopen them. Once done with these moving up Ky River to redo more. There is no more Barge traffic on Ky river past Lock Port stops at Lock 3. Hasn't been since the Sand Lot closed down in Frankfort.

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Originally Posted by Pan Fish

From Lock 5 and above been closed for a few years now. They have been working on 5 and 6 last year to reopen them. Once done with these moving up Ky River to redo more. There is no more Barge traffic on Ky river past Lock Port stops at Lock 3. Hasn't been since the Sand Lot closed down in Frankfort.

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I was referencing the twin lakes.

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Originally Posted by bandchaser

I was referencing the twin lakes.

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GOTCHA

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Originally Posted by CrappieDontTap

In my opinion, I'd say if you're gonna fish public waters in Kentucky you'll have to live with Asian carp.
It's seems like another issue our govt has failed us on.
Thank the Lord that I've still got a few private farm ponds to go to.

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I don't think they've failed us, they just haven't found the solution yet. They are working on it, some things take time.

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Originally Posted by justinp61

I don't think they've failed us, they just haven't found the solution yet. They are working on it, some things take time.

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I agree, I feel like our KDFW is doing everything they can with the resources available. It's such of complicated problem with no easy solutions.

Adam, I'm late in responding but I do appreciate you posting in response to my original post. I see some things in your comments that seem to validate many of our concerns.

KY State University has a huge aquaculture program. Why not throw them a bone and get them involved in this? I've not seen them mentioned in any way concerning this problem.

If an issue was affecting the horse industry, the powers that be would find truckloads of cash to fight it. This issue is so far just affecting us in some area not covered by the golden triangle so it isn't important yet. It will be when the revenue from tourism dries up.

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Originally Posted by mrdux

If an issue was affecting the horse industry, the powers that be would find truckloads of cash to fight it. This issue is so far just affecting us in some area not covered by the golden triangle so it isn't important yet. It will be when the revenue from tourism dries up.

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Amen!


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While Kentucky seems to be aggressively working on this problem, if the adjoining states don’t put as much effort into it, then it’s all for naught! You can’t have one guy letting 8 pointers walk, and only 50yards away another guy shooting them.


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Here's some pics from Yesterday at Blood River.

1st pic is a healthy Black crappie female with a good egg sac.

2nd pic is a skinny White crappie female with small translucent egg sac.

3rd pic is a healthy White crappie female with a good egg sac.

Most had good egg sacs from bright yellow to mushy white. Noticing a few more than usual with underdeveloped sacs. They look like females caught in May after spawn. This could be due to abnormally low water temps for the delay in egg production. These fish have been stressed all year with poor shad population, cold extended winter weather and a 12 ft lake level swing in a 2 week period.
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Originally Posted by Nutbush

While Kentucky seems to be aggressively working on this problem, if the adjoining states don’t put as much effort into it, then it’s all for naught! You can’t have one guy letting 8 pointers walk, and only 50yards away another guy shooting them.


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I agree, it would be great if surrounding states could add some resources to the research. It may not be a problem for some now but if a solution isn't found it could soon be.

At this point I believe the best remedy will be either biological or genetic (think of replicating the virus that caused the big die off a year or so ago). There are SOOO many now I don't think Ky plan on netting their way out the problem.

No Plankton = Thin Crappie

Asian Carp is the guilty party.

May get worse before it gets better

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Originally Posted by Amartinbio

Hey guys, sorry if I’ve somehow given the impression that crappie weights weren’t down. Or that they weren’t down due to baitfish being down. They are down, and it is due to the predator prey ratio being unbalanced. Bass weights are also down. Has the competition with Asian carp affected our gizzard shad? Certainly. Are crappie weights the lowest they’ve ever been? No. This does not mean that we don’t have a problem, but it does mean that I’m not panicking. Carp are the biggest threat we have by far which is why controlling their population is a huge priority.

I am always interested in the opinions and concerns of anglers regardless of whether I want to hear it or not.

This topic will be a major component of the meeting on Thursday evening.

As for egg condition, there is some precedent for reduced egg production when fish are starving or stressed. It’s one of the theories for “density dependent population control”. It’s never really been proven in crappie, (they tend to overpopulate if given the chance so they at least aren’t very good at controlling their own population numbers). The average ky lake crappie female has about 120,000 eggs. (Less than the average Asian carp which usually has about 200,000 in other populations. not really sure where the 1 million number came from...). It doesn’t take many crappie eggs, but it does take the right conditions.

As for carp spawning and crappie eating them, we still haven’t observed any individuals in the lake from a 2016 or 2017 year class of carp, although we know from carp egg weights that they at least attempted to spawn. The 2015 year class is still extremely abundant unfortunately. They need high flows to spawn and unfortunately this year looks like a high flow year. We absolutely do not need another successful carp spawn in the rivers or the lake so I’m really hoping this rain calms down before water temps rise. If anyone observes small carp in stomachs or cast nets please take a photo. This information is crucial.

Hopefully those that are interested will be able to make it out to the meeting to discuss carp efforts and other issues. If not, send me an email or give me a call anytime to discuss the issues. Apologies to those who felt they weren’t being heard.
-Adam

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What age class was the die off from last year? From the hundreds (thousands) I saw they all appeared to be of the same 16" or so length. I would think those would be a relatively young age class.

That die off was exclusively the 2015 year class. I’m not aware of any adult fish being affected, but there may have been a few.
As for Kentucky state university’s involvement,
I’m not 100% on Kentucky state’s involvement in the carp problem. I’m thinking they were sent samples during the fish kills but I’m not sure.
I know they do some interesting things with breeding and aquaculture of other species such as paddlefish and even crappie.

https://scout.com/outdoors/bass-fish...Lake-117254525

Rickie

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Originally Posted by rnvinc

https://scout.com/outdoors/bass-fish...Lake-117254525

Rickie

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Interesting article, my main argument has been the damage to the natural food chain.


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As I first started to read this thread my first thought was ,,, Asian Carp, before I got to it in the thread.. I think These fish are mostly bottom feeders. They bully their way into the nest of every species in the water decimating the food chain. Plankton is the Primary food of all Shad, with the Depletion of it, the shad is the first thing lost in the food chain. When Hurricanes Destroyed Coastal areas all Kinds of animals were released into those areas. Look at the Snakes in south Florida Eating Dogs and Cats even Alligators. Tropicals should never be allowed into this Country under any circumstances

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Originally Posted by rnvinc

https://scout.com/outdoors/bass-fish...Lake-117254525

Rickie

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This was a good read. Thanks Rickie.

Very interesting article.

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Originally Posted by Fish on Line

As I first started to read this thread my first thought was ,,, Asian Carp, before I got to it in the thread.. I think These fish are mostly bottom feeders. They bully their way into the nest of every species in the water decimating the food chain. Plankton is the Primary food of all Shad, with the Depletion of it, the shad is the first thing lost in the food chain. When Hurricanes Destroyed Coastal areas all Kinds of animals were released into those areas. Look at the Snakes in south Florida Eating Dogs and Cats even Alligators. Tropicals should never be allowed into this Country under any circumstances

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The silvers and bigheads that have taken over our lakes are not bottom feeders. They are filter feeders and feed wherever in the water column the most plankton is.

FYI. There is a new group on Facebook called Fisherman Against Asian Carp (FAAC) Ky Lk. It has about 3000 members so far and is getting some momentum in case you haven’t seen it yet. I am just glad people are trying.


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