Frustration to the max

Boy I am starting to hate palmered hackle, LOL! I like it a lot, but only when it's a few and got a guy wanted a bunch with no tail. Says he kills the big jumbo crappie in Miss on these, but I got to say I don't charge enough to do these. Looks pretty simple, wouldn't think it would take too much longer to do that, but it does!

I have a shoulder issue and usually the pain goes away pretty fast as long as I can use the rotary function some tying and not hold my right arm up a lot, but this is torture as all the wrapping and still even using the rotary function to the max, it's murder. Every time you get one all finished except trapping that hackle and when you do it breaks. Can you hear me screaming from here? Not only it breaking, as it can just slip right out of the hackle pliers and that really get me going especially after 2 or 3 times it does that. Oh and none of this happens until you are so close to a whip finish that you think it's done.

Ok enough venting and on with tying. Sorry guys, but had to get some of this anger out, so thanks!

Skip

would you post a pic of those whenever u get a chance. i think those would be
intresting to see. no rush though. good luck

Here is the little devil and one other I decided to make my self by adding in some synthetic hackle to the real one.

Skip
The one making me crazy...
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b4...s/DSC04743.jpg

The one I am glad is just for me, LOL...
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b4...s/DSC04764.jpg

Those are real different. I have to try palmer again. Last time it was a disaster.

Skeetbum, it's not bad if you take your time and just follow the steps. I have a hard time holding them with my pliers, but actually that cheap thing holding this jig in that picture works as well as most and is cheap.

The guy I am making these for swears that he kills the big boys with it and is the only jig he wanted. Both him and his wife, this is their favorite, but not that bottom one as that is my little addition. I hope he doesn't see this one and want some. Can't think about palmering both of them, but that is what that is.

I am going to do a line of these I think, but may have to have a come to Jesus meeting with my self if I do. I hope to try that bottom one in the morning, but it's not a fair test since I have not been since early May and have done no work on any spots. Just feel the need to fish for an hour or two and do a lot of looking.

Look at the methods for palmering from both ways if you want and just don't rush it as it doesn't like rushing as I have found out. These simple jigs take me a bout 2 - 2 1/2 time longer to tie than a normal simple hackle tail jig.
Skip

Amen brother your preaching to the choir. Got the problems jig tying is what corporal tunnel and shoulder issues. Well it wasn't the only thing but at least 30% was.

I feel your pain! Tying small stuff with partridge or quail does it to me too. The stem of the feather gets a bit too brittle and breaks right before you're grabbing the bobbin to tie it off... Yup! Been there many times. Cuss it and keep going! Those will catch crappie and bluegills for sure.

Already had the surgery on my right hand and was supposed to do the left, but just never did. I was a pitcher back when little league didn't have rules about how much you could pitch and I pitched probably 80% of all our games for 5 years when I was like 7-13 years old.

Then I got really smart and took on coaching way back in the 1980's and did a lot of practice pitching for another 5 years and didn't always warm up right and now have a rag arm needing surgery for over 20 years now, but just don't want to. Had enough surgery with my back (plates and big screws and nerve damage)and Bypass (5) stuff to fill my surgery want to. Not to mention a bunch of others and why is Gods name I will not get this fixed I don't know.

Skip

Quote:

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Originally Posted by quivira kid

I feel your pain! Tying small stuff with partridge or quail does it to me too. The stem of the feather gets a bit too brittle and breaks right before you're grabbing the bobbin to tie it off... Yup! Been there many times. Cuss it and keep going! Those will catch crappie and bluegills for sure.

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Part of the problem is quality of feathers we get now. Bought an Oz. of that Chinese Saddle hackle and it's giving me fits.

Lots of tiers that are not fly tiers don't realize what all goes into feathers and how you can buy some high end skins that the hackle stems are oval and not round so they tie easier. Of course that is mostly for dry flies and like I said the high end of raising chickens to get great quality in tying feathers.

These are cheap!

Skip

I actually like doing it but I have the same problem sometimes. I have gone as far as cutting tiny grooves or sanding the surface of hackle plyers to prevent it from slipping. For some of my larger salmon and steelhead jigs I will put 3-4 hackle in one jig.

I don't have that much trouble with them breaking when I tie them in narrow end first and wrap to the wider end. When grabbing the fine end it breaks off a lot.

Something else I have found that helps is to strip off one side of the hackle if it is stiff and then tie it in. This gives an almost flat surface to wrap and allows the feather to bend more than it tends to break.

Nice rant! I always have atleast one palmered jig in the water when I fish. I love them. I quit using hackle pliers a while back!

Something else I got to try ;)They look like they could be a pain to tie. Nice jig Skip :)

Buddy I can see the stuff flying across the room LOL. If you're gonna stick with solid natural colors you might want to check out the grade 3's from Conranch Hackle Conranch Fly Tying Hackle the stems on them are oval shaped and work great.

If you want dyed florescent colors good luck I have no idea where to get them LOL.

I know alot of guys on the fly tying boards are using the clips from Radio Shack Mini Hook Clips - RadioShack.com instead of regular hackle pliers.

Fatman

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fatman

Buddy I can see the stuff flying across the room LOL. If you're gonna stick with solid natural colors you might want to check out the grade 3's from Conranch Hackle Conranch Fly Tying Hackle the stems on them are oval shaped and work great.

If you want dyed florescent colors good luck I have no idea where to get them LOL.

I know alot of guys on the fly tying boards are using the clips from Radio Shack Mini Hook Clips - RadioShack.com instead of regular hackle pliers.

Fatman

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Thanks Fatman! I know Conranch and have several of their skins of the Juvenile and too expensive for jigs IMHO, LOL! Probably would have needed to charge the guy more if I used that stuff. That is some excellent skins, but pricey too. I think that I am going to pick up a few more adult skins to see how much there is. I have some nice Red Dun, Honey Dun, Variant & a Badger, but why not get more, LOL!

I just think some of this strung Chinese Saddle hackle is not as good as it could be. I am going to see if the Strung Woolly Booger Saddle is wide enough for what I am doing. I know the Woolly Booger Saddles feathers are very long, but not so wide. I may go back to him to ask if next time the hackle can be more narrow, but almost done with these now. You can bet with about 60-70 of them to do there was a few times I got peeved to say it nice.

Thanks guys,
Skip

Skip they look like blue gill killers.you are really doing a good job skip .

thats what i was thinkig snake. those look like theyd be great for bluegills.thanks for posting the pics skip. you are really the best

What size hooks are you tying them on? I was always toold the hackle length (one side of the stem) should be the same size as the hook gap.

Hey Skip, you need to get you a bionic shoulder like I did. Had this done May 24th. Now I can tie a jig like Steve Austin (Six Million Dollar Man). LOL
http://i804.photobucket.com/albums/y...ay6-8-10-1.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ScottV

Hey Skip, you need to get you a bionic shoulder like I did. Had this done May 24th. Now I can tie a jig like Steve Austin (Six Million Dollar Man). LOL

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Damn that looks painful it self. I got the screws (6) in my back and a couple plates and that didn't go great.

I have given lots of though to talking to the Doc's about this.

Skip

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MuskyGary

What size hooks are you tying them on? I was always toold the hackle length (one side of the stem) should be the same size as the hook gap.

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Your talking about fly tying rules and that usually will be what they do, but this being a jig and I go by no rules for this stuff. Heck the head on the 1/8 Oz. ones would be bigger than the hackle, LOL! Little exaggeration there, LOL!

Skip

I was injured on my railroad job. I had repair surgery March '09 but arthritis had set in and led to the replacement surgery. I'm doing well though. Had it done at Andrews Sports Medicine Center in B'Ham. They are #1 in the nation on this type stuff.

ScottV I never got over my back surgery and that was 1989, but they had one re-do 10 days after the first and had some fusion bone about to cut my sciatic nerve into so they fixed that and then just had to see what the fall out was. Worst part is the fusion didn't take on my right side. Heck my 5 Bypass surgery in 2000 was a snap compared to the back thing.

I guess that I have been hesitant to let them get in my joints. Maybe I will look into it.

The jig looks great and of course a jig fishes under the water while most palmered flies are tied for a surface presentation. Those little jigs are no fun to tie for us guys with big fat fingers!:D:D

I hear ya Skip I was thinking about selling those to the local shop but I don't think so... They do work great especially tipped with a minnow when they don't have a tail.

I don't use strungle saddle hackle any more for that reason, only skins where I can test the hackle before I pull it off to tie on the fly or jig. I have 3 whole Whiting saddle skins that I pick though depending on what size lure I am tying at the time.

And those pictures look sooooo painful!

The sad thing is I have a good many saddle patches, but finding a wide one like he wants is kind of hard. I have some Booger Saddles too, but maybe a bit thin for this buggy looking thing that I first though a bit crazy, but once I tied it and looked at it good said wow you know I think this thing will hunt!

I am going to get some whole skins after this other than the JV ones I have. Need longer feathers and even though the JV's are a good value since the saddle comes with the cape. I still need some better stuff for this and I have now plans of making some other colors like this and even trow some of that synthetic hackle in there too. That painful stuff, LOL!

Thanks,
Skip

Try Freeman's Fur & Feather. Quality hackle and the best prices I've seen. They have necks,saddles,deceiver patches which are killer,and other quality furs and hairs. If you want skunk,they got it.Best hackle for my money so far and I've been tying buggers and bugger jigs for quite awhile. Flatfish has some now and he says they are really good and I'm sure they are. With hackle,you get what you pay for. Spend $5 don't expect much.Decent necks will cost $20 and up unless you get lucky. I've gotten some good deals over the years,you just have to know what you are looking for.

Gosh that top one that u call little devil looks like a bluegill killer for sure. If & when you feel like making 12 more plse let me know. Can't wait to get the first ones I ordered to try out. Two back operations and just happy I can walk.

I had some lightweight surgery in '94 and it (of course) didn't do near what they said it would. It was 2 yrs before I could say it was as good as it gets. An ordeal. I can walk and work and fish and I thank God every day for what I ability I have left. Bad for the Crappie.

Skip, would schlappen feathers work?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jaxsprat

Gosh that top one that u call little devil looks like a bluegill killer for sure. If & when you feel like making 12 more plse let me know. Can't wait to get the first ones I ordered to try out. Two back operations and just happy I can walk.

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Jack I know bout them back surgeries and not a fun thing even if not a big one. I painted your stuff yesterday and will probably tie some today and maybe finish tomorrow.

Guys I got out on the water, no fishing other than stick that jig in the water and wow what colors came jumping out. Mainly was trying to record on my 1197 and see it with some software called HumViewer, but darn I can't figure it out and will have to go back to that site to learn.

schlappen I have a good bit of, but it's not saddle hackle and think it's just too different.

Junglejimsjigs is right on and I have a lot of great quality capes and necks and saddles, but just didn't want to use them on this. Guess at some point I will need to do that, but thank goodness I finished yesterday so the torture is over, LOL! He's really right about buying good quality and that is important on some things. Jim I just trying to make them without getting into my better stuff and bought this Chinese Saddle Hackle (one OZ.) and it didn't pay off as it took me a lot longer than it should have to tie 64 of them.

Skip

Just thought of that and figured I would throw the idea out there. Glad to hear you finished 'em up!

I will say when I stuck that mixed jig in the water and the sun hit it I was really impressed with the colors coming out. I expected to see the Chartreuse, but the Blue coming out was very nice. Don't know where it comes from, but it was there. Something about that Black hackle and the synthetic hackle just made the colors seem amplified or something.

I could have solved my troubles by just taking the Saddle from my JV Badger cape since the saddle is Black and used it, but he is not paying enough for me to use that stuff. I mean how many places can you get oval shape stems?

Oh and thanks Jim for the Freeman's Fur & Feather name as I will look into them for sure. (LOL, must be getting old as I already had their email, but just had not looked lately, but matters not since they are out) Thanks anyway.

Skip

They still have some on ebay,free shipping.Chinese saddle stems are thicker and stiffer than the hackle I normally use making it a bear to tie. Probably put it all on ebay one day and get rid of it since I don't use it any more. Skip,save the headaches and use your good stuff. I buy a lot of bulk grizzly necks as well as white. Then I cut them in half and dye them the colors I need. Two colors per neck or saddle,usually takes a little while to use them up.