Thread: All you OKC fishermen

ok...off my soap box....the issue is the closing of the hatchery....keep calling guys...let them know we will not be buying permits to use the lake and where our priorities are....not sure they care...but at least they will know we do!

I voted for MAPS, MAPS for Kids, and MAPS3 ............... and I would vote for it again, and again, and again. That funds the type of projects that will improve the quality of life in OKC, make the city a more attractive place to live, and grow our local economy ........ which will increase our tax base.

I've been here 40 years and I'm more proud of OKC than I've ever been. I see more promise for the future than ever before. I'm glad Ron Norick and others had this vision almost 20 years ago.

I'm sorry you don't share that vision.

Originally Posted by lazylakedog

well two bits...too bad we didn't pass a tax for a fish hatchery and public service instead of a 70 acre homeless park that i will never visit...did you forget we already passed the hotel tax to improve the fairgrounds?....double dipping on that one....do we really need a new cox center??????.....we really put ourselves in a pickle this time!

The value of a new convention center.

Help attract more and larger conventions.

More and larger conventions helps the downtown hotels stay in business and possibly create need for more downtown hotels to be built.

The more hotel rooms the city has, the larger the events the city can bid to bring to Oklahoma City. Bigger and better sporting events, concerts, etc.

We've already grown hotel space to be large enough to hold the Big 12 basketball tournament. I'd like to see more.

And while I will never stay in a downtown hotel, I , or more likely my daughter and her children, will enjoy the big time events that come to OKC.

So , do we need a new convention center ? If those who are working to bring conventions to OKC think it would be a great help , then by all means , get it done.

Originally Posted by TwoBits

I voted for MAPS, MAPS for Kids, and MAPS3 ............... and I would vote for it again, and again, and again. That funds the type of projects that will improve the quality of life in OKC, make the city a more attractive place to live, and grow our local economy ........ which will increase our tax base.

I've been here 40 years and I'm more proud of OKC than I've ever been. I see more promise for the future than ever before. I'm glad Ron Norick and others had this vision almost 20 years ago.

I'm sorry you don't share that vision.

When I paid $20 to park downtown last week, it reaffirmed my desire to NOT be like "big league cities." But even so, if they'd been RESPONSIBLE and said something to the effect of "these are hard times, so we're going to need a .01 temp tax for the budget, and when that's resolved, we'd like to initiate a .01 for Maps3" I'd probably be for it. Instead, they said, "we don't care about your fishing, we don't care about emergency response times, heck, we don't care about your safety at all, we just want to make sure the rich keep getting richer."

Now I'm a hard-core, straight-line republican. I BELIEVE in trickle-down economics. I just don't believe in putting the cart in front of the horse (in other words, I don't beleve in building secondary infrastructure before you've satisfied the needs of the primary infrastructure).

I park downtown for $5 , all the time, never pay more.

We have an adequate tax base to fund city operations, I believe its 3% of sales. Its not the 3% part that is wrong, its the sales part that is down. The 3% part is very adequate, you want more money, grow the economy.

Besides, it does not hurt for any government entity to go through bad times and have to trim the ship. The last thing you do in bad economic times, is raise your tax base. Business trims in the bad times and they come out of it leaner and meaner and better for it, government should be no different.

But you can not put off working on improving the city's economy during the bad times, if there's any time you need to make yourself even more attractive to new business, then that is the time.

And folks, the oil and gas business is not going to last forever. In a lot of ways, we need to diversify our economy and these are steps we need to take to get there.

And you also can not sit and be happy with the status quo, for cities, they are either growing or shrinking, there's no middle ground. It takes a lot of work in the economic development area just to replace jobs a city loses every year.

Right now, Tulsa is gonna have a big hurdle to get over when they are faced with replacing the Thrifty Dollar Rentacar jobs. And those were primo jobs, the home office jobs, the kind of jobs every city covets the most. They are the top execs, the IT people, the accountants ......... all the really high paying jobs. If Tulsa is not working hard to attract new business, then before long, they become Lawton.

All this time I had no idea Mayor Mic was a member of crappie.com!

All kidding aside, I'd love to know where you parked for $5 when there was a Thunder playoff game, the arts festival, a redhawks game, and a 6A high school prom in bricktown. I had the honor of working two such nights, and parking was ridiculous! Send me a PM if you don't want the whole world to know your secret spot.

Again, I agree with most of what you're saying. In my industry (LASIK eye surgery), if the economy is not growing, we're one of the first to feel the affect. I'm all-for growing the economy. The only problem I have is when you admittedly attempt to grow a city without the necessary PRIMARY infrastructure. It'd be like Chase saying they want to add 20 floors to their downtown tower to keep up with Devon while the engineers say they don't have the foundation to support that extra weight. Or the city of Moore attracting all that new retail when they didn't have the water/sewer systems to support them (that happened, and I lived in Moore at the time; trust me, it was NASTY!). I applaud the long-range vision, but how about a little forecasting for the interim?

You said "The last thing you do in bad economic times, is raise your tax base." And I agree. You can split hairs by saying the Maps3 tax is temporary so it's not in the "base," but for 7 years plus, we can count on it to be as steady as the base tax. So what we've just done is raise taxes in bad economic times. Unfortunately, we did so for frivolous venues that could have waited a year or two. Then AFTER the vote, we're told they're going to take even more money 'cause the prison needs some work. And all I'm asking for is a few sheckels so we can have decent fishing without driving an hour.

You know, I haven't noticed anyone mention the effect this closure would have on crappie specifically. The hatchery doesn't stock crappie, but the walleye they stock are intentionally used to prey on crappie to control the population. And since I will not be buying a city permit after they close the hatchery, the #1 predator of crappie (that would be me :D) is gone. And the #2 predator (walleye) will be fished out in a matter of a few years. Hence the overpopulation and stunting of crappie as we know it. Call your councilman/woman!

Originally Posted by DC Crappie Kid

All this time I had no idea Mayor Mic was a member of crappie.com!

All kidding aside, I'd love to know where you parked for $5 when there was a Thunder playoff game, the arts festival, a redhawks game, and a 6A high school prom in bricktown. I had the honor of working two such nights, and parking was ridiculous! Send me a PM if you don't want the whole world to know your secret spot.

Its no big secret, they are all over the place. Start with the Santa Fe garage, and a city lot under I-40 off Harvey, any lot more than 1 or 2 blocks from the Ford. There are $5 lots all through Bricktown. I don't see your problem here, the only $20 parking I see is in the Marriot right next to the Ford. And the lots across the street from the Ford to the west are $10.

There's no secret spot, $5 parking is everywhere. You were parking with the muckety mucks if you paid $20 .

Again, I agree with most of what you're saying. In my industry (LASIK eye surgery), if the economy is not growing, we're one of the first to feel the affect. I'm all-for growing the economy. The only problem I have is when you admittedly attempt to grow a city without the necessary PRIMARY infrastructure.

I don't see the problem you're speaking of here. Just flat don't see it. Our three percent sales tax is plenty high enough to support city operations and there's other methods of funding these " infrastructure " needs you say are not there, mainly through bond issues.

You said "The last thing you do in bad economic times, is raise your tax base." And I agree. You can split hairs by saying the Maps3 tax is temporary so it's not in the "base," but for 7 years plus, we can count on it to be as steady as the base tax. So what we've just done is raise taxes in bad economic times. Unfortunately, we did so for frivolous venues that could have waited a year or two. Then AFTER the vote, we're told they're going to take even more money 'cause the prison needs some work. And all I'm asking for is a few sheckels so we can have decent fishing without driving an hour.

Its not splitting hairs that MAPS3 is temporary.

The reason you do not raise tax rates in down times, is when the economy recovers , tax revenues far exceed necessary levels and when was the last time you saw any government body lower tax rates during good economic times. They don't usually , they find new programs to fund, new ways to spend that new money. The only time I've seen that in my lifetime was the State lowering income tax rates a few years ago. If they don't lower the tax rates, then after a couple of economic ups and downs, tax rates become too high and government growth is out of control.

And its during the down times is when an opportunity arises to become more efficient, again it does not hurt for government to trim some fat and find out what is important and necessary .......... and what is not.

Again, I know this is hard for many to comprehend, but MAPS3 is an entirely separate financial entity than the every day operation of city government. MAPS3 is an investment in the future. And it was not a tax increase, it was continuation of a tax in place. And a majority of city residents have decided its worth the investment.

And this whole idea of tax decreases stimulating an economy only works on a national level. That concept really does not apply to local level. It has such a small impact, its negligible.

As for the hatchery, what bothers me most is that the money has been there for the hatchery through a lot of good and bad times. If it survived the 1980's, then it should survive any economic downturn. My best guess for what has happened in Parks and Rec dept, is over a period of time, say the last 10 years , they've added new programs when their revenues were fat. And now, they have decided to keep funding the new programs over the hatchery. That's merely my best guess.

The hatchery: We all recognize that everyone who spends time and money for recreation at our lake contributes to our city's economic health and our quality of life. Every visitor to the lake contributes to the richness of the lake experience and the valueof Lake Hefner to OKC. WE all know how much our activities contrbute to the quality of life and prosperity in OKC but not everyone does.

The time is short. Contact City Council representatives and the Mayor now. City representatives and staff are working to balance the budget in this revenue shortfall and it won't be easy. May 25, the budget recommending closing the hatchery will be introduced to the council. June 8th is the hearing. June 15 is the vote. The hatchery is a revenue producer when you count everything and it can be revenue neutral if all you count is permit fees. The hatchery is good for Lake Hefner, and good for the economy.

Here are a few facts you can share with Council reps to help them make the best decision:

1) The hatchery costs $160,000.00/yr but can be run on $140,000.00.

2) Anglers bought 1,804 City permits in 2008 totaling $140,640.00 which could pay for the hatchery.

3) Retail sales from fishing was $14,825,937.00.

4) Retail sales tax from fishing was $610,696.00 state and $574,241.00 city.

5) 168 median wage retail jobs were supported bt fishing in OKC.

6)Hatchery staff cost is matched annualyy by a $3 to $1 federal grant totaling $210,000.00 for fishing related infrastructure in OKC.

7) State Wildlife Department provides the hatchery 1.2 million fry to raise for the 3 reservoirs and 13 smaller metro fishing lakes annually.

8) Losing the hatchery means losing most of the fish, a significant part of the retail sales and the permits, and all of the $210,000.00 annual fishing infrastructure funding.

9) Losing the hatchery means the cost to maintaining fishing stocks would be $500,000.00.

The council men and women will receive this information very shortly. Based on this information, does it make sense to close the hatchery??????????

You be the judge. Pick up the telephone and make another call to your councilmen or women and discuss these facts with them. If you do not live in OKC but fish the lake then your opinion still matters. See if they understand the numbers. Ask them if it make sense to close the hatchery based on these numbers?