Any Bush Supporters Out There In Crappie Land?

[crappieseeker]

I have to agree with fishingpox somewhat on this one. I have worked with some Mexican people before, and for the most part they are very hard workers. Like he said, they will do jobs for minimum wage that you coldnt pay some people twice the amount to do it. Also, I understand your concern crappie reaper, in some situations it hurts people like you. If you think about most jobs like factories and such, why do you think they are moving work to other countries, for cheaper labor. Some companies will not pay higher wages, they will just move. Why not let some of those folks work here and keep those jobs here, it does leave room for some jobs for the rest of us and it does help the economy. If they leave the country, it's a total negative. I do agree with you reaper that they should come here legally. I dissagree with our government giving them all these tax breaks and free health care that we Americans cant get. They seem to be able to buy up all the gas stations.

[crappiefishergirl]

i'm not a bush supporter and not ashamed. i'm not happy with the direction that our country is heading. i don't consider myself a bleeding heart liberal, but i'm don't agree with the ultra conservative view of the president. i feel that we, as a country, are losing important social services that are needed to sustain the populations of our country. i saw the same thing when bush sr. was in office. i don't like that our country is in debt. i don't like that our young men and women are being killed everyday for .... well i don't know why they are there cuz everytime bush has to support the reason why our service over there it's a different reason. i don't like how the families of our service men and women in the states are on welfare (oh, but the budget been's cut cuz people on welfare are lazy and no good...i forgot. [sarcasm] and have lost their partner's work benefits. it's not fair. those people are over there dying.....for me...some say...and their familie are not being cared for. our soldiers, marines, and sailors are being forced to use substandard equipment


i have to stop. it's makes me so upset. there's so much...but like someone mentioned above, and i thought it was funny, i have been quiet cuz i believe in our country. i believe that everyone has a right to their own opinion, but i have been confronted by bush supporters or conservative republicans in a very negative manner that i just keep my mouth shut cuz i don't want to put up with it.

i'm like a lot of you though....i didn't vote for bush, but i didn't vote for gore or kerry. i ddin't feel that either one would have made a good president. the first time around i didn't vote for anyone for president cuz i didn't like any of them. the second time around i voted for the independent candidate so my vote wasn't wasted.

look, abortion is an important issue. family values is an important issue. but these issues don't run our country. i feel that polititians are just pulling at our heart strings to get in office but they really don't have a plan of action. i don't vote for a candidate based on those issues. i vote for someone that has a plan to get this country out of debt. a candidate that has a plan for the support of our infrastructure, jobless rates, poverty, security, and international relations. that's what's is important...at least according to me.

[Crappie Reaper]

They work for less than minimum wage at times. And I never said they did not work hard. You missed my point completely. They ARE hurting the economy. Is it because they allow you to purchase items cheaper? You may as well be sending your money to china or taiwan, cause regardless, it still leaves the country, to bring over other family members. I pray that they never infect your career with their willing to work for nothing, pay no taxes, and pay into social security at times to never draw a thing. Yes, that happens. It is one reason why our Government refuses to do anything about the illegals. Some of them do pay in, but never withdraw.

Why does it always have to be about the almighty $$$?

[crappiefishergirl]

"why does it always have to be about the $$$$"

i'm with your reaper.

[crappieseeker]

Crappie Reaper, nobody said you said they did not work hard. We just stated that they did. They are no more hurting our economy than all those lazy ass Americans out there that are too lazy too work. Thats why you see alot of welfare people and all in New Orleans and many other places. I dont blame them for coming over here and wanting to better themselves. Alot of people over here dont want too, they want everything handed to them. I agree with you about the fact that they should do it legally. The more it cost to make things, the more they will sell it for. People are in business to make money, so if its costing them more to produce it, then it will cost you more to buy it. I will tell you what I've witnessed many times. I have worked with people on some jobs that would lay out of work alot, you ask them why they missed and they say. I cant make over a certian amount or I cant get my government check and my food stamps. Now these companies have to call in people and pay them time and a half if they can get someone to come in. It hurts the rest of us when this happens. The legal immigrants I've worked with didnt seem to have this problem. These companies are not aloud to just fire these people, it's just not that easy. Even when it does reach that point, it cost them again to train new workers. Crappie Reaper, you have got me and fishing pox all wrong. Go back and read. There is nowhere we said that illegals should be here. fishing pox even mentioned an impeachment of the president due to the border control. We are just saying there is nothing wrong with them being here legally doing the jobs that others wont do. Crappiefishergirl, you are totally right about the candidates not having a plan, they use personal issues like you mentioned to get the top seat, then they dont have a clue how to run a country. I'm with you on that one. Although I dont agree with abortion, thats not what I would base my vote on either.

[Crappie Reaper]

I as well do not have a problem at all with those that are in the US legally. I am just stating that the # of illegals has spread nationwide, and in my opinion is an infection to our economy. And if it persists, I too will end up in the welfare line. I will not have much choice. I stand strong in my statement that allowing it to go on, makes things worse for all. And, why would you mind paying a bit more for anything, Made in America, by Americans? It sounds as if you are using the same frame of thought that the rich use in by justifying their presence. The law is the law, imigration laws should be followed as much as robbery, drug trafficking, murder, etc.

I agree with you and fishingpox on many, many points. But, the attitude that their cheap labor justs keeps certain prices down is not good in my humble opinion. Hell, we might as well stop buying anything Made in America. Let's send all out business out of the country and act like the major manufacturers that have laid off thousands to move their operation out of the US. Stop buying Fords, Chevys, Chrysler products. Get them real nice "China tools". Maybe we should just invade Mexico and let their people do the work, and we can all head south to retire under the sun. The illegals are a cancer to our economy. There are so many of them in the US now, that if we did send them back, it would be detrimental to the present economy. I just know they cost me money, and every American money to support them, doctor them, school them. Whether you realize it or not, they too collect food stamps, section 8 help on rent, and there is not a thing we can do about it. Keep the legal aliens, YES. Get rid of the trash, hell yes. I feel that some people are still not understanding the point I am trying to make about illegals. Frankly, I give up trying. I know it effects us all and is not saving us squat.

[crappieseeker]

I agree with you about the illegals. You know what irks me most of all. You cant even hardly buy an American flag thats even made in America anymore. When 9/11 took place and during the Iraq war, you couldnt hardly buy an American flag, everyone was sold out. They were burning them by the thousands in the other countries. I passed on buying my own countries flag because it was made in another country.

[fishboy]

There is a big W on my windshield and I would say he was the best boss I every had but I was in when President Reagan was president....don't get me wrong I don't agree with the stance of immigration, taxation (too much) or the spending frenzy on non-military social programs. But he is the Right man for the job.
Semper Fi

[Crappie Reaper]

Agreed fishboy, best man for the job for the choices we had. Bush has the ballz to do what needs done.

[fishingpox]

Mr. Reaper, when I was a younger man, I used to do cornice work. I took 5 years of building trades in junior and senior high schools. I graduated school and went to work as a carpenter,then worked my way to cornice work. I liked it and as a matter of fact was pretty good at it. Then I noticed all the mexican workers coming in. Now this was back in 1977. I could not believe my eyes, they were like ants coming into the construction field. So, I left the business. I'm just glad I was young enough to go find another profession. I got lucky enough to find a job helping a man who owned an electrical company. Also,he had a small shop where he rebuilt and rewound electrical motors. The electric motors caught my interest and I have been doing that since. No, I do not have to worry about someone taking my job at a lower wage. I'm not saying everyone can make the move as I did to find another job. Heck, here I am 47 years old going to college at night,to hopefully obtaining an electrical engineering degree. My threat is not cheap labor but a fat,beergut,rotten tooth redneck of a boss who told me what the F are you going to school for,your degree is not going to do me any good. Pisses him off because he knows I'm on my way out of the business and not making his living anymore. I can't wait to see how he replaces 27 years of experience in rewinding electrical apparatus.

I'm sorry you are in a field that is over crowded with cheap laborers. It is a shame that your experience and quality of workmanship is not appreciated the way it should be.

Ok fishing pox, I DO realized how CHEAP certain things are from the illegals being in this country. I agree there are plenty of lazy Americans. But, when one has to literally work their azz off everday, and not make much for their effort, it's easy to be turned away from the work that is available. I think your statement is a copout and if the illegals were not here, there would be someone that would gladly do their job, but it would cost the business owner a bit more (i.e. ins, possible health, etc.). The business owner caught using them should be fined so much, they would have to think twice about having a proper I-9 form on hand for their employees.

This is the first post you have made, that I am sorry, I cannot agree with. Why shouldn't a person, an American, be concerned about the wage paid for his chosen trade? Too bad if veggies and building costs were to have increases due to the workers getting paid for an honest days work. As a Trim Carpenter, they have stagnated, and in most cases reversed the amount each job will pay. I am making less now than I was 15 years ago. I am from the "old school" and take the extra time to make sure a job is done right. I cannot afford an experienced American helper. I should be able to employ other experienced Carpenters @ $15-20 an hour (They deserve a living too). But, because of the influx of illegals, labor stays at a bare minimum. I am down to two builders that will pay the extra .15 a foot that I charge above the illegals because of the quality of detail. And the wage I charge, hasn't changed in 15 years.

I don't know what you do for a living, but, fantasize a group of illegals flooding your market in your chosen work. Then picture the competition getting tougher and tougher price wise. Then, think of what it would be like to possibly, completly lose your job to an illegal. What you have mentioned, is how the upper echelon thinks and does not try to put themselves in someone elses place. They only look at it as keeping prices down for them. I promise you, the cost of residential, or commercial building has only risen in matterials only. The labor on most trades has remained, or been lowered for years now. Most residential builders only profits 3-4k on a small 2-3 bedroom home. The insurance, the fees, the materials have all risen. The price of labor has gone down.

Now there was a time, they did mainly the meanial jobs. But, watch your back. Now their children are gaining education, and your job, or your childrens job, could be next.

The illegals are now able to get home mortgages from American banks. All they need is an ID card, no visa, no passport. I don't blame them at all for wanting a better life. But it does affect my familys income severely. There are so many in the country right now, if we sent them all home, and sealed the borders, it would cause an economic domino effect dissaster.

I have no problem at all with legal immigrants. After all, that is the way of the USA. But, we must seal the borders and at least know who and why someone is here. It's for the TOTAL good.

This is Reapers opinion.

Put the shoe on the other foot and think about it. The government for years has thought the same way as you. I personaly think of it just like a cancer, once it gets started, it grows and grows. And eventually kills the host.