4th Heart Cath las night.....geez

[Cane Pole]

Do you know what the principles where, that the Southern Baptish Church was founded on? EB

I don't know anything about Southern Baptists, but I do know Martin Luther hated the Jewish people. He wrote about his hatred.

[Eager Beaver]

We need folks running the govt programs to think like they are taking to money out of their own pockets, instead of pot of gold with no bottom. I think they would do a better job of investigating the need before the handouts, and follow up on a continuing basis to see if the need was still there.

I'm definitely at odds with you on the 5 people going free before one innocent be punished. These recent shooting sprees that killed many innocent folks were the result of NOT punishing folks that could be a danger to society. Was it better to let the killers continue with their strange behavior while not breaking any laws, rather than to lock them up to prevent the killings? Sorry, I say sacrifice one to protect many.

Would you like to be that ONE I think you would change your mind if you were or someone close to you were that ONE. It is always easy to say things like you did, but your stance changes when it entails you personally.
CF was a good example of this when he found out he could be stopped for no reason and questioned. He thought it was ok to do this to other people but not to him. THEN IT MADE A DIFFERENCE to him. EB

[Shellback]

Would you like to be that ONE I think you would change your mind if you were or someone close to you were that ONE. It is always easy to say things like you did, but your stance changes when it entails you personally.
CF was a good example of this when he found out he could be stopped for no reason and questioned. He thought it was ok to do this to other people but not to him. THEN IT MADE A DIFFERENCE to him. EB

We just had the 3rd instance in last few weeks of someone showing signs of unbalance killing folks. So rather than take them into custody, you think that is improper, and you would rather risk multiples of other folks lives to give one his freedom? Maybe if some of those friends and family of the perpetrators had thought more about the danger to society they could be, and less about themselves and family, everyone of the victims would still be alive. In each of the past three cases, people knew or had a good inclination, that they were a danger to society.
It seems to me folks with a liberal way of thinking tend to put more value on an individual rights, than the rights of society as a whole. Unfortunately, some folks just don't deserve to live in a free society. If myself or one of my family can't abide by the laws of society, then we should be dealt with so as not to allow harm to others. Sometimes I wish the family members or the judges, or social workers who allow these dangerous folks out on the street, should be criminally charged!

[LBM]

.................................................. ........
It seems to me folks with a liberal way of thinking tend to put more value on an individual rights, than the rights of society as a whole. .........................

Just as a effort to show how folks can differ when viewing the same thing I will try to explain why I hold the exact opposite view you expressed with your statement here.

I think the progressive liberals place a much higher value on society, community, the tribe or the collective than on any one individual within the group. I hold that a individuals rights to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness is of the highest of values and with that unique and previously untried idea, in the history of mankind, is what made this the most exceptional country to have ever existed all due to this countries founding principles. Principles the progressives see as outdated and old fashioned since man has progressed so much in science and technology since the founding and therefore those old principles should be discarded for something new and better. I'll agree we have certainly advanced in science and technology but I'll submit man's nature has not changed one iota since the founding and from before in human existence. It was with the founders understanding of human nature that they designed a constitutionally limited government with separation of powers, the rule of law (not the rule of man) and to function with the consent of the governed all this in order to attempt to mitigate the evils inflicted on mankind all because of mankind's inherently flawed nature. I just think the founders deserve so much praise and admiration for this totally new and untried idea and point of view on mankind.

Now back on whether the individual rights should be subordinate to the collective rights. I say it is the progressives holding the higher value on the collective than on the individual are those who look around seeing someone in need and then, with their omniscience seek to rearrange how things are distributed in society, and start looking for other individuals in society to throw into the communal pot for the benefit of those in need. With that societal view the competent and productive now see their rights in jeopardy to a coercive collective government. With the progressive libs in power they will continually add more and more obligations onto the competent to acheive their egalitarian utopia. The government was fundamentally founded to protect the individual from coercion is now a instrument of coercion on and against the competent individuals.

Now if I had posted like our prominent liberal loon here does all I would have just posted is your statement and said I disagree and you are wrong and and a idiot. Just lob the bomb and leave. I hold my positions with what I think are valid reasons and am more interested in the whys and wherefores of opposing positions since my positions can always be changed by what I considers as valid reasons.

[Eager Beaver]

We just had the 3rd instance in last few weeks of someone showing signs of unbalance killing folks. So rather than take them into custody, you think that is improper, and you would rather risk multiples of other folks lives to give one his freedom? Maybe if some of those friends and family of the perpetrators had thought more about the danger to society they could be, and less about themselves and family, everyone of the victims would still be alive. In each of the past three cases, people knew or had a good inclination, that they were a danger to society.
It seems to me folks with a liberal way of thinking tend to put more value on an individual rights, than the rights of society as a whole. Unfortunately, some folks just don't deserve to live in a free society. If myself or one of my family can't abide by the laws of society, then we should be dealt with so as not to allow harm to others. Sometimes I wish the family members or the judges, or social workers who allow these dangerous folks out on the street, should be criminally charged!

I did go back and re-read your post again, just so I would understand what you are saying. So what I am getting from your post is that you think there should be more and stiffer gun laws or do away with the guns all together. To protect the multiples of other folks lives as to protect ones guns. Is that what you was trying to say, because that is what you said. EB

[Eager Beaver]

egalitarian utopia..

Ya didn't disappoint LBM. ya got your signature phrase in there. EB
You must pleasure yourself each time you say that phrase.

[Shellback]

I did go back and re-read your post again, just so I would understand what you are saying. So what I am getting from your post is that you think there should be more and stiffer gun laws or do away with the guns all together. To protect the multiples of other folks lives as to protect ones guns. Is that what you was trying to say, because that is what you said. EB

Ah, Good try at turning things around. You folks do have a way about that. I don't see the word "gun" anywhere in my post. A person can do harm with many things today. If a person shows signs that they could do harm to others, they should be dealt with!

[ricky]

I can't believe I read all this just to find out where CP's gizzard is.

[fishingpox]

Cane Pole is the KING of hyjacking threads

I can't believe I read all this just to find out where CP's gizzard is.

[DENNIS WILLIS]

Dang boys this post turned from prayers for Mr. Tom into a whole nother subjet. Hope all is well Mr. Tom.There is a place for this stuff on here, and yes I belive in God and pray everyday, don't care what anybody says, all we have is from our creator and he aint no alien , If you don't belive there are too places to spend eternity, Smoking or non somking. I don't push my religon on anyone but maybe I should,