i cant find em they have vanished. i fish niagara and erie counties , I fished 8 1/2 hrs yesterday and nothing but a northern and a 6 inch perch. i guess it dont help that im stuck fishing from shore. But all i can say is they are not around shore line from 1 foot to 7 foot deep or around the brush piles or under any of the bridges i fished. or in any marineas "open water or under the docks". KEEP ON KEEPIN ON kb!