Thanks for the replies. Fishing for over 40 years and still learning. We have a friend that is amazed that we are able to put together good catches on tough days. He'll ask what we're using where we are fishing etc. Next time I see him he will say he wasn't able to catch anything but a couple of small ones. I'll ask what he was using and where he was fishing, his response is always the same "I fished in 3 feet of water and tried worms, and minnows" totally disregarding my advice everytime. Some people don't learn or don't want to learn.