little jigs and kip..HELP!!!!!

[Doc Crappie]

What type of thread are you using? A waxed thread may be the key or the problem. I have not tied with kip tail but at times it makes all the difference if it is waxed or it isn't. Marabou in really small quantities seems to stay with waxed thread better than non. Hairs for me won't stay if I tie them with waxed thread unless I use a lot of it.

My thought is that a flat thread is gonna lay flat and not give the hold you need for such small amounts of material. A round thread will create grooves that will really hold tight to the kip tail like it does with other tails I have used like squirrel.

My guess would be that a base wrap of a non waxed thread would be your best bet. I will be getting some soon so I will have to experiment as to what thread seems to hold it better.

Actually that had never crossed my mind will have to check into that myself and thanks for pointing that out. For I am using a flat waxed line right now and they seem to hold together pretty good but a round non-waxed may hold the kip better indeed

[skiptomylu]

He is right thread makes a big difference and almost all my thread is flat waxed. When I cinch that stuff down it's good. I also mostly use a little heavier thread than most with a lot of 210 and 140 denier. I do have some 6/0 that is also good, but have some 6/0 I can't tie with without breaking the stuff. I am just too heavy handed for it.

[Doc Crappie]

He is right thread makes a big difference and almost all my thread is flat waxed. When I cinch that stuff down it's good. I also mostly use a little heavier thread than most with a lot of 210 and 140 denier. I do have some 6/0 that is also good, but have some 6/0 I can't tie with without breaking the stuff. I am just too heavy handed for it.

how does that denier handle is it more of a nylon thread? Been wanting to try some out for I am kind of heavy handed myself and often will break the danville thread that I am using and it never fails it breaks when i am getting ready to finish up the jig, so frustrating

[Fatman]

I can do them but it's a real pain in the butt!!!!!! You have to have the thread base on the shank of the hook or the kip will put out cause that bare hook won't hold too well.

Use less kip as has been said, the bigger the clump the more tightening you have to use.

Just stick with it it just takes practice.

Fatman

[Jiggin_Joe]

I just whipped up alot of these sent 5 to doc as a matter of fact. what I do and they stay on is have a thread base I use 210 denier do a tight but not over tight for you will end up with a very long neck then. after you wrap the neck a couple hitch knots and probly most important flexament. hope it helps

JJ

oh there is 1 more trick pm me and i will try and explain it

[Uncle Grump]

I've had the best success w/ 210 denier waxed thread. 3/0 waxed gave me fits.

I've sometimes resorted to gluing the thread to the hook shank to keep it from spinning.

I like kiptail, but it and I aren't buddy-buddy....

UG

[Doc Crappie]

I've had the best success w/ 210 denier waxed thread. 3/0 waxed gave me fits.

I've sometimes resorted to gluing the thread to the hook shank to keep it from spinning.

I like kiptail, but it and I aren't buddy-buddy....

UG

UG

how do you think some of that deer hair woud work on these little micro jigs. Would that be just as hard to get to hold in place as kip tail, what you think

Doc

[Uncle Grump]

Doc

I don't know...

Not tryed any of the deer hair yet - want to make some bass bugs for my flyrod (7wt).

It might work - shorter than bucktail, but it is stiffer than kiptail.

If you could thin out all the short hairs, and just keep the longer ones, it might tie - I know for making bugs - you want strong thread. I've used 210 denier w/ bucktail and had no problems holding on a jig. Got some Kevlar thread for the bugs (so it will spin), but I need a ceramic bobin before I can try/tie it....

Try it, post your results....

UG

[redear]

I have no problems with the kiptail slipping, and heres how I do it. use a flat waxed nylon thread or other strong thread. 140 denier on the tiny jigs and 210 denier on the size 8 hook and larger. lay down a firm foundation of thread wraps first, I even put a little hansens on that too. It's important to use enough tension to stretch your thread some but not break it, regardless if your using a weaker or stronger thread. your problem could also come from how you tie the hair on, it can be tricky. I even up the hair by laying it on a table and pushing on both ends till it looks right, then pick it up and cut the but end a little longer than needed. now hold the bunch on top of the hook firmly with thumb and index finger, and scoot it towards the head a little, so that you'll have to trim the butt ends with a single edge razor when your done. now wrap as hard as you dare about 10 times while holding the hair and hook firmly, otherwise the hook will bend, without some support. after checking alignment of the hair, wrap it some more, now take the razor blade, and just in front of the thread, and using the lead head as a backstop, push down on the hair with the razor blade and it'll pop right off, you will then put a tad of cement on the butt ends up against the lead head, it will soak in, but won't soak back thru the thread and into the remaining hair. now tie it off. whew.....lunch time.

[Doc Crappie]

I have no problems with the kiptail slipping, and heres how I do it. use a flat waxed nylon thread or other strong thread. 140 denier on the tiny jigs and 210 denier on the size 8 hook and larger. lay down a firm foundation of thread wraps first, I even put a little hansens on that too. It's important to use enough tension to stretch your thread some but not break it, regardless if your using a weaker or stronger thread. your problem could also come from how you tie the hair on, it can be tricky. I even up the hair by laying it on a table and pushing on both ends till it looks right, then pick it up and cut the but end a little longer than needed. now hold the bunch on top of the hook firmly with thumb and index finger, and scoot it towards the head a little, so that you'll have to trim the butt ends with a single edge razor when your done. now wrap as hard as you dare about 10 times while holding the hair and hook firmly, otherwise the hook will bend, without some support. after checking alignment of the hair, wrap it some more, now take the razor blade, and just in front of the thread, and using the lead head as a backstop, push down on the hair with the razor blade and it'll pop right off, you will then put a tad of cement on the butt ends up against the lead head, it will soak in, but won't soak back thru the thread and into the remaining hair. now tie it off. whew.....lunch time.

Good step by step there well explained go ahead enjoy your lunch