little jigs and kip..HELP!!!!!

[brimreaper]

I am trying to tie up some 1/100 oz jigs with different colored kip tail and the dern stuff keeps pulling off the hook. I know Illigiller can tie these things well and I know some more of you guys have some good looking pics of small jigs with kip....so.....how in the sam hill are you getting the stuff to stay put on the hook. I am putting alot of pressure on the thread...enough to break it on a regular basis( cuss cuss and cuss some more). The only way I have been having any luck at all is putting HAN on the hook first and then tying the jig but then my kip is getting all stuck together and has no flare on the tail end. I have tried roughing up the hook shaft with a small file and it STILL slides off. The little trash bucket under my vise is slowly filling up with kip and different colors of thread. There has got to be a secret to this that I don't know about.....so hep a fellar out ya'll....teh me de secret to dis bitty puzzel afore I goes out my mind...............brim

[AtticaFish]

I don't run em down that small, so not sure if this will help... Put a thread base down before you tie in the kip. I do this 1/8-1/4oz bass jigs with deer tail. But there is alot more room to work with on those. Not sure other than that - Good Luck!

[Saline Lake Jigs]

I also put the kip on in sections this allows more thread per strands of hair. in return a more sturdy and strong holding tail.

[skiptomylu]

It's all in the wraps as how many. It would surprise you how low the tension need to be to hold material if you have the wraps. Also the more hair you use the harder it is to keep it from spinning around after it's tied. On small jigs I make my thread base all the way to the hook bend and sometime past. Maybe try a little tiny bit of super glue on the thread base before you put the hair to help hold it. You can also make a few wraps over the glue to kind of push it into the thread and dab off any excess with a paper towel.

Other than that I would need to see the problem. The less room you have to put wraps will make a difference too. So longer shank helps. Maybe if you use a regular bend hook it would help, but I don't even know what kind of hook you are using, but the regular bend will have a longer shank.

Skip

[Doc Crappie]

It's all in the wraps as how many. It would surprise you how low the tension need to be to hold material if you have the wraps. Also the more hair you use the harder it is to keep it from spinning around after it's tied. On small jigs I make my thread base all the way to the hook bend and sometime past. Maybe try a little tiny bit of super glue on the thread base before you put the hair to help hold it. You can also make a few wraps over the glue to kind of push it into the thread and dab off any excess with a paper towel.

Other than that I would need to see the problem. The less room you have to put wraps will make a difference too. So longer shank helps. Maybe if you use a regular bend hook it would help, but I don't even know what kind of hook you are using, but the regular bend will have a longer shank.

Skip

Skip

These would be 1/100 with a size 12 hook small working area.

[skiptomylu]

Skip

These would be 1/100 with a size 12 hook small working area.

Why does the hook need to be so small?

I will confess here. I bought an exorbitant high cost auto bobbin and you can actually just let it hang on the hook and turn the vise wrapping as it goes, so not much wrap power. If you make a good number of wraps with it like that you can not pull out the material. I was amazed at this and how low the power can be and it still hold. I have been tying several years and this was news to me for sure.

Still I would make wraps with say some 6/0 thread and take it past where the hook bend starts. This way you should still get a good number of wraps.

Skip

[Doc Crappie]

Why does the hook need to be so small?

I will confess here. I bought an exorbitant high cost auto bobbin and you can actually just let it hang on the hook and turn the vise wrapping as it goes, so not much wrap power. If you make a good number of wraps with it like that you can not pull out the material. I was amazed at this and how low the power can be and it still hold. I have been tying several years and this was news to me for sure.

Still I would make wraps with say some 6/0 thread and take it past where the hook bend starts. This way you should still get a good number of wraps.

Skip

He is gill fishing and that is about the best size hook for that type of fishing. You are just using a pinch if that of the kip tail not very much at all. I think Brim may have been trying to tie the kip tail straight onto the hook is the only reason i could see that the kip tail would not stay in place. If he lays that base thread on the shank it should cure all or most of his problems.

I know when you first laythe kip on the hook you want to make the first wrap loose, just tight enough to keep the kip tail in place until you can get it spread evenly all the way around the hook.

Sorry Skip you know all this and more compared to what I know about jig tying.

But anyway the small hook is needed for the Gill Jigs and they also make excellent Ice Jigs as well

[skiptomylu]

He is gill fishing and that is about the best size hook for that type of fishing. You are just using a pinch if that of the kip tail not very much at all. I think Brim may have been trying to tie the kip tail straight onto the hook is the only reason i could see that the kip tail would not stay in place. If he lays that base thread on the shank it should cure all or most of his problems.

I know when you first laythe kip on the hook you want to make the first wrap loose, just tight enough to keep the kip tail in place until you can get it spread evenly all the way around the hook.

Sorry Skip you know all this and more compared to what I know about jig tying.

But anyway the small hook is needed for the Gill Jigs and they also make excellent Ice Jigs as well

No apology needed and I was just asking, but I do go after some gills myself and don't use less than a #8 hook and lots of time catch gills when trolling a 1/32 oz Roadrunner with a #6 hook. So I guess just thinking out loud I am thinking why use a #12? I just don't get it unless you need to catch very small gills? I think maybe can catch a minnow on a #12 or almost?

You are right about the wraps though and that is the biggest key.

Skip

[fish_4_all]

What type of thread are you using? A waxed thread may be the key or the problem. I have not tied with kip tail but at times it makes all the difference if it is waxed or it isn't. Marabou in really small quantities seems to stay with waxed thread better than non. Hairs for me won't stay if I tie them with waxed thread unless I use a lot of it.

My thought is that a flat thread is gonna lay flat and not give the hold you need for such small amounts of material. A round thread will create grooves that will really hold tight to the kip tail like it does with other tails I have used like squirrel.

My guess would be that a base wrap of a non waxed thread would be your best bet. I will be getting some soon so I will have to experiment as to what thread seems to hold it better.

[Doc Crappie]

No apology needed and I was just asking, but I do go after some gills myself and don't use less than a #8 hook and lots of time catch gills when trolling a 1/32 oz Roadrunner with a #6 hook. So I guess just thinking out loud I am thinking why use a #12? I just don't get it unless you need to catch very small gills? I think maybe can catch a minnow on a #12 or almost?

You are right about the wraps though and that is the biggest key.

Skip

Skip

Catching minnows not true havent come across any redears as of yet but I have been catching some nice gills on those jigs 8 and 9 inches some pushing a pound which I think is a pretty decent Gill. #8 hooks are a good size as well but I got my jigs from Jiggin Joe and those jigs of his convinced me that they are very good for gill, but again it is pre-spawn for them here will see how they work when post spawn comes around which will be very soon. Only draw back for me using the #12 is they are kind of hard for me to see what I am working on sometimes I use the hackle pliers just to get my big fat fingers out of the way.