Requesting feedback for ESB R & D

[Cray]

#1 I don't like the fact that we buy from China, but reality is not much of anything we buy today in the fishing industry is not at least partly made in China. Most anything else is also. Just a fact of life today that we live in a world wide economy.

# 2 I would certainly give them a shot. I for one wouldn't mind paying a little more for American made. I really do not understand their ( all American manufactures ) attitude. They lose you then which product in their catalog is next? Before you know it they are out of business.

[wicklundrh]

Personally, I don't care if it is made in China, Korea, Ethiopia, or the Phillipeans.

I applaud you in your effort to try and make an "all American" product. One of the few people in America that do. Remember that American made cars, manufacture parts outside of the country. They still say "American Made" because it is assembled in America.

I've fought for my country and the flag that it stands for. I have over 20 years working for my country. That said, I tend to buy the "best" product on the market. If it happens to be built in Russia, Germany, or Asscrackastan, so be it. A pickup truck costs 40 grand (the cost of my first house), because people work on Assembly lines and think they are entitled to getting a 3 dollar an hour raise if they have to turn one extra bolt. China jumps in on the competition to offer an "alternative" to a product you currently use but no longer have access to in the quantities you want. I have no issue with that.

I live and work in the car capital of America, I see it all the time. Engine parts built in Tiwain go on an engine block built in America, by Cubans that came to America by way of Mexico! Made in America my friend!

[skiptomylu]

UPDATE.

First, thanks to everyone who's viewed, and double to those who have replied. Special thanks to Badgerloader, that's the kind of hard data I need.

My research of the past few days has convinced me that aluminum is not a suitable material for my bobbers. It has a frictional coefficient twice as high (it's not as slippery) as brass. I think it would be even worse once the inevitable coating of aluminum oxide forms. So, brass it is and brass it will stay.

This has never been about me raising prices. The per piece cost of my bobbers is not high, I have more than enough profit margin built in. It's about my American supplier deciding that I need to special order a part they've always sold me before, a part that they have listed in their catalog right now. I designed around it, for crying out loud. The only piece that I have any real control over is the tube, because extruded plastics can be made to fit anything, cheaply. So my tubes are custom made to fit my glass beads, bobber bodies, and brass grommets all at the same time. At my current production levels, they want me to buy a fifty year supply of brass eyelets, at a cost of nearly a year's profit!

So, as I said, brass it is. I have already obtained a quote from a Chinese company (for a quantity of 100K) that is about 1/4 what the American company would charge, if they would actually sell me 100k. I just have to get a couple more answers from them (like copper to zinc ratio, Badgerloader), and I'll be ready to go.

So, a couple more questions.

1) Given what I've related above, does anyone have a problem with me outsourcing to China? Free market and all that considered?
2) Or, should I contact the American company, tell them what I'm going to do, and give them another chance to sell me 100k? This may sound crazy, but I would probably pay far more just to say I bought American.

Again, thanks for the feedback. Also, I hope that this has been enlightening for anyone else thinking of bringing a product to market.

I have bought a few things from China and am always amazed at the shipping cost and how low it is. I have had no complaints about their products I have bought which are not many, but I did buy some Alabama Rigs from over there a few years ago to test that market and got them super cheap and sold them for way under what others on the internet sold them for. I only did a small amount too and could have even got them for less if I wanted to buy more. I just didn't want to mess with it. There are a couple other things I bought from China and again amazed at shipping cost. Normally I do not buy from China and even my tying supplies China is end supplier for some of the stuff like Hackle, but really good hackle like Fly tying quality comes form America where they are raised and sold of tiers.

Any more it's had not to buy something from China. All Roadrunner heads are made in China or Haiti or some other place like that. I even get a differ quality from one over the other, LOL! It is what it is!

[deathb4disco]

Given what I've related above, does anyone have a problem with me outsourcing to China?

I’d estimate that at least 90% of the crappie tackle sold in the US is made in China. So, I think you could outsource your entire operation to China and nobody would care.

[mdperson]

You tried, that is more than most can say. If an American company will not make it for you at the quantity that you need then thats all you can do, go elsewhere.

[crappie_dan]

I would let them know you plan on switching to another manufacturer that is willing to give you a smaller minimum quantity. The only reason a company would give up business is if it is going to cost them money. Also if they actually are discontinuing the item see if you can purchase all of their back-stock at a discounted price.

Great info here. This is what I would do first.

[Two Dog]

Do what you think is right and serves your customers best ... That being said I too would pay a little more for American made parts but will still and buy your product either way. I am just glad you even care enough to ask and put the cards on the table! Cudos to you!!!

[kickingback]

Who ever can make the product the best and the cheapest is the best way to go. Let the U.S. company know they are losing a customer and see if they will work with you. If not, oh well. You tried. It's your business and you have to survive. That's the way of business. I support small businesses. With that said, if you had to raise prices I would still buy from you. These are great bobbers that last! Best bang for the buck in the long run in my opinion. I would pay $2.50 a bobber if need be without any problems. Just to let you know.

[BuckeyeKdog]

I would try contacting a local screw machine company and see if they would be interested in making them for you. Keep it US and keep it local. You can pretty much have them made out of anything but I would consider naval bronze if you are wanting salt water compatibility.

[ESBguy]

UPDATE.

Yesterday, I sent this message to the American company:

"Good morning.

I'm going to ask you again to sell me 100,000 A1811 brass eyelets. They do, after all, have a Federal purchase number.

If you refuse, I'm prepared to purchase from a company in China.

I will await your reply, but not long."

I received this reply:

"
Based on the minimum amount of metal we must order to furnish A1811, minimum production quantity will be 500,000 pieces. We are unable to quote you on 100,000 pieces of A1811 brass. Please advise if you would like a quotation on 500,000 pieces.




Also, see spec sheets of A2470 flat flange eyelet, and GS44 rolled flange eyelet attached. The posts are .007" smaller than that of A1811 and the flange if A2470 is .011" larger.


A2470 brass - 100,000 pieces @ $9.20/1000. Over 1 million pieces in stock subject to prior sale and an order may ship within 2-3 business days.
GS44 brass - 100,000 pieces @ $7.46/1000. Goods also in stock subject to prior sale.


Samples are also available at your request."

Unfortunately, the eyelets they reference are too small in diameter to be used in ESBs. The quantity of 1/2 million is, as I said, out of the question. I've ordered samples from the Chinese company for testing.

Once again, thanks for reading, I'll keep you posted.