Jig Swap Issues ... How Best to Resolve?

[AWMiller]

THE MAIN PURPOSE OF THIS THREAD:

To identify the main issues experienced in the swaps and how best to get them resolved in the best interests of everyone involved.

There's been a lot of discussion both on the boards in the swap threads and in private messages that have been sent to my attention regarding issues experienced in the jig swaps and why aren't things being run more efficiently and effectively. The main issues experienced in each swap must be given plenty of attention to and that's the purpose of this thread... to identify the main issues experienced in the swaps and how best to get them resolved in the best interests of everyone involved.

When you boil it all down, there are several resounding complaints that I either read about or receive PM's about:

1. that there was not enough time to get signed up.
... or ...
2. the time frame for getting the jigs to the swapmeister is too long.
... or ...
3. drop-outs.
... or ...
4. not enough jigs mailed in.


Any swapmeister (and the swap participants for that matter) will face these issues at one time or another. So let's look at each one because each swapmeister (and the participants) are going to have to determine what will be done if one (or more) of these issues are encountered.

1. Not enough time to get signed up...
This is probably the biggest complaint that I see/receive. Sometimes the swaps fill up fast..... sometimes they don't. In the beginning it took quite a while to fill up a swap either by a deadline date or by a maximum number of tyers. Recently though we don't have a problem whatsoever of getting a good number of tyers in on a swap. The problem is ... the maximum number is set low. Those that "live" on the forum get in and those that don't "live" on the forum don't get in. And I can totally understand the angst that one would have if they did not get in on a swap when they log in only to find out that it had already filled up.

So....

ISSUE---> no matter if you set a sign-up deadline date or impose a maximum number of tyers... either way you're going to get folks that just didn't get in on it in time.

RESOLUTION---> what say you?

In my humble opinion... There's no way around this. It's a given and it will be encountered no matter what. There MUST be a cut-off date to get in on the swap; otherwise the swap would have no end because folks are continually signing up. So to me it's a moot complaint. Some say run multiple swaps... do that and all you'll get are compounded complaints from those that didn't get in on either of the swaps!

2. Time frame to get jigs in to the swapmeister is too far off...
Let's get one aspect of these swaps clearly identified.... there are some tyers who can crank out jigs left and right in a short amount of time. There are also tyers who don't work fast for one reason or another.

So....

ISSUE---> if the timeline is too short... the swap is geared to the more skilled tyers who can turn out the jigs in a short order of time. If the timeline is too long, the liveliness of the swap tends to die out and the excitement of it wears off quickly.

RESOLUTION---> what say you?

In my humble opinion... Now keep in mind that the complaints revolve around everyone not being able to get involved. The timelines on the swap must take into consideration that there is a great mix of skill levels involved and if the complaint is to make the swap where everyone can get involved, the timelines must be set so that all skill levels can EFFECTIVELY participate.

3. Drop outs...
In a swap there is the potential for someone to just drop out. And in some cases there is no notice nor any explanation given as to why the tyer dropped out.

So....

ISSUE---> someone drops out.

RESOLUTION---> what say you?

In my humble opinion... If it's a last minute thing what can you do? Nothing... But if the swapmeister is made aware of this tyer dropping out and there's still some time left in the swap.... the swapmeister must decide whether to (A) continue the swap with one less tyer or (B) find an alternate. Now again we go to Issue #1 and the fact that not everyone is going to be able to participate in the swap. There may be enough time to find an alternate who can crank out the number of jigs in time and then again, those constraints might be too much and the alternate can't make it. So you notify the alternate... how long do you wait before moving to the next alternate. Oh but then the first alternate might come back and say he didn't "live" on the forum and only recently logged in to see the offer to get in on the swap and now he/she wants in. Yeah... more issues and complaints on the way!

4. Not enough jigs mailed in...
It's happened to me on swaps that I ran and in swaps that I participated in. And as they say, history is bound to repeat itself!

So....

ISSUE---> supposed to send in 15 but the swapper only sends in 10.

RESOLUTION---> what say you?

In my humble opinion... I don't know!! This one always leaves me feeling discombobulated and it's something I pontificate on from time to time to find a suitable solution to the problem.

================================================== ====

Now, I'm hoping that you'll give some very serious thought into these issues and come up with some sound recommendations that we can look into implementing and help improve these swaps!!

So think deeply about these items and I look forward to reading up on your recommendations!

Thanks y'all!

[mikeb]

Number 1..
IMHO,I think the days of the swaps not filling up fast are over.
Maybe some of the tyers that "live" on the internet and are able to sign up can bow out to some of the tyers that can't git on line all the time. But that opens another can of worms...."I signed up and I gonna do the swap".
I guess we all have to behavelike adults!!

Number 2....
This one is conect to number 1.IMHO, A resonable time frame should be established for doing 15 or 20 jigs.Say 4 weeks.This would encourge all tyers to be a bit faster and better.This would allow for faster turn arounds and more tyers could git in and some tyers would Say "I think I will sit this one out" That would make room for more tyers to git involved.
I know for me its quite a chore to tie 2 swaps back 2 back.


NUmber 3...
IMHO,There is not a lot you can do.FInd a replacement if you have eoungh time.If you don't have enough time for a repalcement and you have extra jigs just give thim to the swapmaster.WIth this age of communication the swapmaster can request a phone number for all the tyers and if somebdy drops out,,,call.There comes a time when the tyers have to take initiative,(git a email notification,PM cell number.)Have a set number of Weeks or Days between swaps so all tyers will know when One ends we have X numbers of weeks or days befroe the next.

Number 4....
Should never happen..everybody should be able to count to 15 or 20
Good Grief..Mail the tyers that sent in the jigs not counted right back to them. And give the extra to the swapmaster( you will be one tyer short because of the tyers that did not send enough).

I hope this make sense.
As with all things there is no solution that will please all the people all the time.
Everybody just has to do the right thing.
Now my fingers are tired so I can t tie tonite..:D

mikeb

[AtticaFish]

AW - I feel like I'm back in H.S. doing FFA Parliamentary Procedure :p
Here's what I think.....

1. Not enough time to get signed up...
More Swaps!

2. Time frame to get jigs in to the swapmeister is too far off...
More Swaps!

3. Drop outs...
That will happen no matter what, sometimes $hit happens.....

4. Not enough jigs mailed in...
If I was swapmeister at that time... I would randomly pick some names and either tie a few extras MYSELF for those or give away some extra stuf that came in to the ones shorted. Just have to let ALL swappers know how it all went down..

My thoughts for answers 1 & 2 - I think the swapmeisters list is somewhat dated to when these swaps first started. As said, back then, it took awhile to fill a swap and everyone wanted to have their chance to host and just not enough bodies to go around. Now there are many more tiers, so I would think there could be more swaps held at the same time. The list of hosts that is started would be the prestiougous "o-fish-ul" swaps, but anyone else could host their own. If someone posts to start an off-shoot swap and only 4 people sign up, you know the saturation point has been reached.

Check out the swaps on FAOL . They have a whole seperate board for swaps. Is it possible to have a seperate board inside the jig tying section here? Also notice their swaps are MUCH smaller. This would fix 4 problems I see
1. More people could be hosts
2. Numbers of jigs could be less, hence faster turn around time
3. The clutter of swap threads would be minimized on the main board, look at it now
4. More variation, I fish for more than crappie - Blue Gill swaps, Bass swaps, Trout swaps, Walleye swaps, Ice-jig swaps, Saltwater swaps, Wife swaps - oops, too far. Lets face it, there is no other place on the web that specializes in hand tied jigs like here on c.c (ahem L.) I would get into at least 4 of what I just listed.

I know, I know... this would all have to go through Slab, but would like to here thoughts on this..... HOW MANY PEOPLE ON HERE WOULD GET INTO SWAPS IF THEY WERE ONLY 8-10 JIGS INVOLVED?

I've said too much - Need a beer - Keep in touch - AF

[AtticaFish]

that thread was waaaay too long so not gonna edit - & i have a beer now......


BTW - I forgot to mention the countless possibilities of size, color and pattern swaps.

I will be honest... Most of the time I buy my led at Wally-World in packs of ten and trim the collars. :o 10 swappers would be perfect.

[dedawg1149]

just send your jigs to me and you will know they went to a good home:rolleyes::rolleyes::D:D

[JUNGLEJIMJIGS]

Instead of limiting the tyers limit the amount of time for the sign up.My opinion is that two days is plenty of time for people who are interested in a swap to sign up. When my swap comes up I'll limit the time,not the # of tyers.If 20 sign up deadline for shipping is 20 days,25 sign up ship in 25 days.You have to average a jig per day to make it on time.That should be plenty of time.

[AgriHawg]

Instead of limiting the tyers limit the amount of time for the sign up.My opinion is that two days is plenty of time for people who are interested in a swap to sign up. When my swap comes up I'll limit the time,not the # of tyers.If 20 sign up deadline for shipping is 20 days,25 sign up ship in 25 days.You have to average a jig per day to make it on time.That should be plenty of time.

Please take this with a grain of salt. Just my opinion, which isn't worth much.

I for one, would never sign up for a swap like this. Unless there were less than 15 people signed up and I signed up a few minutes before the deadline knowing that the number of tyers would not balloon to 20-30. I'm just not interested in tying 25+ jigs the same even if I have a day per jig to tie them. I've done it once and don't plan on doing it again. But that's just me, and like I said....just my opinion.

Also, I guess I feel partly responsible for this mess about swaps....seeing as how I was the first person to limit a swap to a small number. I didn't think it would be a big deal, especially since the swap before mine (#10) only had 19 people sign up and there was a multi day sign up period.

My Solutions:
#1 Rotate between bigger swaps and smaller swaps. Or have multiple smaller swaps. Start a small swap....then 2 weeks later start another small swap. That way every two weeks a new swap is starting. Limit participation to only one swap at a time.

#2 I like 2-3 weeks to send in jigs for a 15 person swap...if there isn't a major holiday during the time frame.

#3 "life happens" if plenty of time replace dropped tyer

#4 No idea how to solve

[hays47]

I have never participated in a swap . So my opinions are probably meaningless. With that in mind read on at your own peril.
1. Possible solution would be to limit sign up to first time participants for five days. Then open up to everyone if spots are left.

2. No solution I can think of here as variation of skill level is high.

3.Dropouts - going to happen at times- if it does happen- 15 jig swap becomes a 14 jig swap. That way no one is out anything.

4. Alert sender of jig shortage. If he cannot supply the full amount return the ones he did send and treat same as drop out. Once again no one is out anything.

Now why haven't I personally signed up for one. I am too busy trying to imitate some of your really nice jigs you guys post pix of. As someone has already said this is the best forum on the best site I have found. Help is plentiful and it seems like we are all working on the same project " THE ULTIMATE KILLER JIG ".

We probably will never tye it but the FUN we will have trying and cussin and discussing it is priceless. JMHO.

[grubfarmer67]

Originally Posted by AWMiller View Post
Not a bad suggestion at all. I made up a diagram to help those who like to see things in a diagram format to help concrete what's being presented.



However... how would you address the following issues?

1. A tyer doesn't mail in the right number of jigs. Instead of 15 they mail in 10.

2. Tyer #13 drops out at the last possible moment.

3. The swapmeister gets confused and the sorting of the jigs gets all messed up and they get mailed out. Some folks get way more jigs than they should and the others are shorted on the number of jigs that they should have received. Swapmeisters are human and mistakes will be made.

4. Sign-up deadline date is reached and afterwards more tyers want to join in on the swap.



Your thoughts?
$1 The swap miester makes everyone aware of the inherent,includes the remaining jigs to the line up in order of sign up and asks those not receiving that jig do they want their extra jig back...

$2 Still up to the Miester to inform the tiers of the situation,and present the tiers w/whats only fair which is does the miester keep or return the jigs left over...Ive noticed every saying ..."keep my extras swapmiester..."
Dont think were gonna eat any ones lunch for that one,as wee all know "POO HAPPENS RIGHT???At the same time"we are all pretty sure what we will be doing around the time of the present month,and most will have there jig ideas,or eveen the jig made and ready for mailing.

$3 ..."I just bought a new Mossberg this year for the goose's ,and will be well aware of the address of the miester n' question!!!Miester contacts a veteran,and makes them aware there maybe an issue,If not aware mistakes have been made,He makes it right best he can by informing the entire swap,and everyone w/the extra jigs could send them back to him to make right at miester cost. everyone will get at least the masses"...God"help the greedy!!!"
...No"No" "Help the needy!

$4 Last ,and is/Has"been an issue of most importance since the Hawg's swap I say again" up to the Miester!PERSONALLY"I know"that you know" the next swap is coming soon after the one finishing up!Am I right guy's???(Newbies are allowed to read the rules ,and they are understood ,and most WELCOME' anytime..."Now until a swap is laid out for them ,I say... "If majority of the swap is in agreement"then their in!W/in the late time allowance of all swap entries.usually 24hrs. after at the very latest!Giving them a 4th day.
"If you are not" signed up on a free for all,of any kind on my swap"particularly in THREE" days given at the most",You obviously have too much time out side the swaps to do other things,and will be comfortable to wait for the next.If your interested ,"your going to inform some one of your interest during your busy season,Walk's thru the woods to and from sommers",Wife swaps, he"he "Lay down baby",think I luv ya"!...Least a half hour WELL she's yours not mine! I mean guy's???"How bad do you want in on this tie ??? You CAN" check the swap posts at least every other day! At the very least 3 days.Don't believe for one single minute that anyone here cant!"I think/know" we all at times like to be unique",and have no where else to get the attention we need as human beings ,in being" "Human beings"...This is "NOT" the place to exercise those feelings...."Not the swap miester's job to people please either. The wife has no say in what I do w/ this swap Except" for maybe color selection from time to time as her opinion is valued on this matter,also Its getting cold out side guy's w/ the exception to Mr.LED HEAD ,and wifey's allowed the opinion she wants to address any time! I know we r all quite aware of this now r we not...???I'm not Neanderthal by far!But"... we should all ack like we got's a sac"by now! HUH? YEA?"...How bout it people?
Also"I agree 100% w/ FF opinion on advertising the swap to be hosted given that Times vary miester to miester, as a rule of thumb for everyone!Makes the most sense to me!And it worked extremely well when he did it.
Best Dollar eighty I ever spent!!!
The Kid"
__________________

"WELL"...YOU ASKED"NOBODY TELLS ME NOTH'N!!!

[OKSTATEjiggy]

Since I'm around a computer all the time, having to check e-mails, staying in touch with classmates, checking for assignments, grades, and other class info, looking at OSU schedules, deadlines, looking up information pertaining to class curriculum, and logging on to Crappie.com dozens of times a day to give my mind a break from reading and studying and thinking about parallels and aspects that could be analyzed and written about, I obviously have an unfair advantage over the rest of you at checking posts.

That being said, since my jigs are only good for catching dinks and hanging up in brush, getting wrapped around limbs, stuck on rocks, and lost because a knot went bad, and because for me, these swaps are merely for recreation, idea sharing, and connecting with people around the country who share an interest in the greatest hobby/means of catching fish ever thought of, and because "I know bout everything they is to know 'bout da tyin' business" (Bubba Blue), and because people out there want to participate in swaps a lot more than I do, I solemnly pledge to GUARANTEE ONE SPOT TO EVERY SWAP by NOT PARTICIPATING in any more swap AFTER Saline Lake Jigs' THANKSGIVING SWAP. In this season of Thanks, I want to Give somethIng back to a great bunch of people, so one spot will be guaranteed.

Your friend and fellow jig tyer,

O. S. Jiggy, Esq.

:p:D:rolleyes: