Thanks GCD I've tried those but do not like the action the flippers give and the plastic is not as soft. I know I am picky but when you find something that works so great you got to have it. Snake River I have been through a few dozen catalogs taken and hundred of web sites and can't find them, I have even taken it in to BassPro and Cabela's and neither of them know anything about it, will send a pm soon.