el Rojo i would not waste time on those . I look out in front 30' or more and look for big ones . Once you learn to read the livescope you can judge the size . I seldom get any closer than 20' and at times look out 40' and pitch/flip a jig to them at 30' if they are spooky . Hold a jig on their nose but try not to bump them . I like running the grid to help put it right on them and judge size but compared to jig you can do that too .