Thanks guys, I talked to an IL friend that fishes the crappie circuit a lot and he told me on his 997 he can't spot it but it does become visible once alge really cakes up on it and that the crappie/bait fish won't use it much until alge grows on it. He told me he had been sinking those pre-made PVC balls a lot but recommended taking sand paper to rough up the sticks of PVC where alge would get on them faster. I put out cedars a lot this winter, even some bigger trees, and I just sank 4 cane buckets here a couple weeks ago. I still have 2 buckets to sink and enough cane cut to make one more bucket. Hopefully I didn't wait to lake to get them sank. Now that spawns over most everywhere I'm hoping to start the brush fishing. I've got another idea which involves one of those old plastic basketball goal bases stuffed with PVC and weighted. Other than being able to be seen I guess you could take a screw gun and drill PVC sticks on a pallet to make a stake bed of sorts. I know Nimrod has mentioned doing that before and pallets last a while. So who's ever heard of drilling holes in cane then running seedeater string through it as structure where it floats up like an underwater fence??