Bob, I dont want to comment yet, not enough time using them yet. What casting I have done so far has been above average but havent caught but a few fish and the conditions were windy. That said, I best be quiet right now. When I do have a better idea Ill post about it. From what Im hearing though, I think I need to try some of the Ester too. Looked through the lures Chris offers and a few of them caught my eye, might be a bigger order than planned.