Thread: Some baits are far better than others most times of year

Definitely more pieces to the puzzle than irritating a fish, and if you bring flying fishing into the conversation, it would really disprove your theory. For the sake of conversation we can keep it a crappie. First, they're known to want to see the bait if possible over smell or feel. However, they're also sensitive to light, so sometimes even when they want to feed they can't because they simply can't see it (especially in clearer lakes). If the fish is accustomed to muddy water, they grow up relying on feel and smell. I'm not going into all this, but once you start going to this path and throwing in barametric pressure, oxygen levels and seasonal hatches... It's just so much more than memory and irritation IMO.

×2 what high tide said.

Originally Posted by INTIMIDATOR

Hee Hee...they can't "forget"...remember, their brain is so small, it only provides for bodily functions.
So a dumb fish "learns" out of nowhere, that a "certain" vibration means food pellets (not a natural food), will be spun out at a given time? AND, they remember that??....Dang, that's just like a dumb dog, or cow with a dinner bell?...So, we have trained brainless fish to come to the dinner table for pellets with a special vibration or Footsteps! Maybe we can irritate a fish into biting for the heck of it!
They go back to "Instinctive" feeding because they are programmed by their DNA, to EAT AND SURVIVE!

Yep ... and "bodily functions" include eating, plus the "fight/flight" response.
Fish aren't "dumb" ... just not as "intelligent" as we give them credit for.
Fish are born with "instincts" (like eat & survive, swim away from bigger critters) so saying they "learn/retain" anything or "remember" anything (over an extended period) is crediting them with a greater capacity than is likely plausible.

Food pellets are not a LIVE "natural food" ... but, hatchery raised fish are never given (live) "natural food". The food pellets are dried components of the fish's "natural food". If they weren't able to instinctively go to eating their "natural food", once released into the wild, they'd soon starve to death !!

And yes, I do maintain that footstep & feeder vibrations (& "food" splashing on the surface) can trigger a feeding response ... as long as it's maintained on a continuing basis. Turn the feeder off, or stop walking down to the pond and throwing food into the water ... and eventually they will "forget" the association and go back to their natural instinctive behavior of feeding.

I put quotation marks around the words forget & learn ... to associate the meaning of the words to humans, not the fish. They run on instinct (DNA programming, as you put it).

And as far as "irritating" a fish into biting a specific "bait" vs the sight/vibration pattern of that bait "triggering" a feeding reaction .... IMHO that's splitting hairs, or the "6 of one and half a dozen of the other" ideology. I don't know for sure, and doubt you do either

... cp

Some fish are sapiens and go to school. Some are ignorant and get caught.

Originally Posted by CrappiePappy

Yep ... and "bodily functions" include eating, plus the "fight/flight" response.
Fish aren't "dumb" ... just not as "intelligent" as we give them credit for.
Fish are born with "instincts" (like eat & survive, swim away from bigger critters) so saying they "learn/retain" anything or "remember" anything (over an extended period) is crediting them with a greater capacity than is likely plausible.

Food pellets are not a LIVE "natural food" ... but, hatchery raised fish are never given (live) "natural food". The food pellets are dried components of the fish's "natural food". If they weren't able to instinctively go to eating their "natural food", once released into the wild, they'd soon starve to death !!

And yes, I do maintain that footstep & feeder vibrations (& "food" splashing on the surface) can trigger a feeding response ... as long as it's maintained on a continuing basis. Turn the feeder off, or stop walking down to the pond and throwing food into the water ... and eventually they will "forget" the association and go back to their natural instinctive behavior of feeding.

I put quotation marks around the words forget & learn ... to associate the meaning of the words to humans, not the fish. They run on instinct (DNA programming, as you put it).

And as far as "irritating" a fish into biting a specific "bait" vs the sight/vibration pattern of that bait "triggering" a feeding reaction .... IMHO that's splitting hairs, or the "6 of one and half a dozen of the other" ideology. I don't know for sure, and doubt you do either

... cp

Memory retention for them IS finite...they can correspond pain to a color, certain shape, etc....but you are correct, it is not long term. That is the reason for some fish being "lure shy" for a season or two, and then the lure or color working again later.

For those interested...Pellet fish food is like any other pet food....there are good products and bad....some food contains things a fish would never eat, because they try to amend the food with CHEAPER different sources of vitamins, minerals, and fillers...but their are a few very good ones that mimic a predator fishes natural diet.

Aquarium fish react like "pellet lake or pond fish" or a dog at feeding time also....I have 3 large tanks, and all of my fish follow me when I walk by and grab their food...they will all group up and follow you back and forth...they are also very "polite" to each other when the food is introduced.

Hatchery fish here are fed live food, so they are ready to go when released...the outdoor tanks are set up to grow zoo-plankton, and other little critters for fry...Minnows/baitfish are raised to feed fingerlings and larger hatchlings.

During the time after the spawn, when Males fish are guarding the nests, they will kill or chase off intruders..."most" times they will not feed on the intruder. This is NORMALLY the only time they will kill and not eat. White Bass follow schools of baitfish and kill and kill, then go back to feed on the dead, dying, and wounded! At our home lake, you will find the largest Walleye and Crappie swimming at the very bottom of these slaughter-fests!

My opinon is baits with little action like tube jigs work best most times because fish don't get lure shy as bad . I've seen times where too much action actually hurt .

(Nimrod)
That's what I've been trying to convey and that's why straight tails that barely quiver much of the time have the advantage over baits with more action and speed. It's not what fish think the lure is but what it's senses reveal. Putting it in a natural light, most aquatic life forms glide through the water - especially fish. Flutter is a key motion. No flash, no noise, no rattles - just a quiet flutter.

Remember, I'm talking about crappie and other pan fish; bass and larger fish species in general have their own set of lures and presentations that trigger strikes - finesse being one of them.

Creature baits came out ten years ago starting with lures like the Sweet Beaver and Brush Hog. I looked up the definition of creature : it can be an animal of any type or indeterminate. Fish IMO see our lures as creatures and possibly feeding opportunities (we'll never know), but beyond that as long as the lure gets and hold their attention long enough to provoke them (like a bull charging a cape after being taunted), I want that lure at the end of my line. I want lures that taunt them into striking and lures that stay in the area longer usually have more success of doing that.

BTW
Every time I pulled by trailered boat along side the shore of my neighbor's pond, at least four or five bass would come out of the weeds waiting for me to throw pan fish to them. But it had to be around 5-6 pm! Not sooner, not later. Most fish of all species in his pond were still susceptible to lures and most had been caught more than a few times using the same lures.

I know a local fellow that "invented" some kind of a spoon/jig for bass that he said stimulated the bite. The day I saw him on the lake in the hot summer, he was flat wearing some bass out. He also showed me video later on that day. He would not let me see what he was using. He was trying to patent. He said he figured it out while raising the Florida strain of bass and he clipped minnow fins until he found the "magic" movement to trigger the bite, then he duplicated it with an artificial.

I have caught fish on a dried minnow on a hook for a previous outing. The minner was petrified. Musta been the smell.