Thread: ethanol

The only place I have to get non ethanol is on the lake at the marina, Ive seen it run from 50 to a 100 higher than regular at the station but I usually try and use it as I burn 5 or 6 gallons on a weekend so I figure that not very much more in the grand scheme of things.How much do you use your boat, I think if you use it on a regular basis and don't let it sit to collect water in the tank, as ethanol will draw it you shouldn't have that much trouble. I know my Yamaha says not to use more than 10% ethanol inand that is what I go by.

Install a good water separator filter, use Sea Foam regularly, and keep on truckin, errr fishin.

It depends on what kind of "trouble" you're talking about. Ethanol doesn't hurt the engine, but it "may" deteriorate some of the seals/gaskets/hoses ... if they are not the "ethanol resistant" versions. And you definitely don't want ethanol fuel in a fiberglass gas tank, as it will dissolve some of the components and/or gunk that builds up on the walls of the tank .... and that will end up in your carbs/cylinders.

Ethanol is alcohol ... and alcohol is a solvent. It also draws moisture into the gas. Water & gas don't mix, and since gas is lighter than water ... the water drops to the bottom of the tank. Once the water collects deep enough to start being pulled out of the tank by the pickup, then you're going to have major problems with your engine !!

I have no non-ethanol gas within easy reach of my hometown. I did fill my tank with non-ethanol gas at a station near the last lake I fished, and put Marine Stabil in the tank. It will have sat for 5 months before I get to use it ... but, it has performed fine in years past, even though the tank had E10 gas in it & wasn't full. I plan on putting a 10 micron fuel/water separator on, this year. I will also, likely put Sea Foam in the gas ... just to help clean out any residue & carbon build-up that may have occurred from setting idle for so long. The motor is a 1999 Merc 90hp.

But, I do have to admit that I ran my 1984 Yamaha 70hp motor for 10yrs, on E10 gas, and had no problems out of it. Even after it sat unused for almost 4yrs, before being sold, it ran fine for the buyer ... and is still running.

... cp

finding more stations near me that is ethanol free. 3.65$ vs 3.15$ is worth it. this is a 2004 60hp yamaha 2stroke. it was hardly used when i bought it in 2011 and i havent used it a whole lot but couldnt turn down the deal i got. it will now have a wrench put on it for the first time as we think the carbs need cleaned or rebuilt.

For some reason we have had several stations in my town start carrying non ethanol gas. It runs about 30 cents more a gallon. Don't know why in the last year they have increased. I am located near a major reservoir so maybe there is more demand, but there are 4 stations within a mile of my house that carry it.

Originally Posted by alexava

finding more stations near me that is ethanol free. 3.65$ vs 3.15$ is worth it. this is a 2004 60hp yamaha 2stroke. it was hardly used when i bought it in 2011 and i havent used it a whole lot but couldnt turn down the deal i got. it will now have a wrench put on it for the first time as we think the carbs need cleaned or rebuilt.

I had the carbs cleaned twice on my old Yammy, but it wasn't because of ethanol. I put a new fuel line/bulb on (the grey generic one) and some tiny particles of it got clogged in the jets. I don't know if it was because I didn't flush the line before attaching it, or if the particles were the result of attaching it. All that cleared up when I put a filter in-line ... or else all the loose particles had already been flushed through.

Even with Marine Stabil, and Seafoam in with the non-ethanol gas ... I still plan on putting the water/fuel separator on. The motor may be a 1999 model, but it doesn't have many hours on it. You lift the cowl & the engine looks showroom new. I'd like to keep it running exactly the way it has run, so far ... and I will pay the extra $$ for non-ethanol gas, whenever I'm able to purchase it.

... cp

I'm going to try to clear up some muddy water in terms of the dis-information that's out there about ethanol fuel. Here are a few facts:
1) Ethanol is highly attracted to water. On a molecular level, the ethanol molecules will attach themselves to several water molecules. As each ethanol molecule collects several water molecules, it becomes heavy and at that time, will begin to sink in the fuel solution.
2) Unlike Non-ethanol fuel, water will suspend in ethanol fuel by means of being carried throughout the column by the ethanol until the ethanol becomes saturated with water and sinks to the bottom of the column. This is referred to as 'phase separation'.
3) In years past with non ethanol fuel, water would go straight to the bottom of the column where it could be captured or drained away with no ill effects to the fuel. Ethanol enhanced fuels are different. Since the ethanol is a key component in the fuel's overall octane rating, when the ethanol and water sink to the bottom, the ethanol is missing from the upper layer of fuel. The remaining fuel will burn but serious engine damage can occur from detonation caused by the lower octane (the fuels resistance to auto ignite under a given pressure).
4) Ethanol is made from the action of yeast on a sugar. The yeast eats sugar and expels ethanol. Now listen up. There are bacteria that consume ethanol and expel vinegar. Yes, vinegar. It takes about two weeks for a bacteria infected batch of ethanol fuel to become a batch of vinegar fuel. The vinegar is an acid and is the cause of a lot of the metal corrosion seen in the fuel system.
5) And last up for purposes of the discussion. Since ethanol is the drinkable solution in our favorite adult beverages, it is taxed as such if not 'denatured'. The 'denature' method most commonly used is to mix a small amount of methanol which is extremely toxic and very corrosive. It's the methanol that eats the inner linings of the older fuel systems.

Now that you have some understanding about ethanol, this is what I recommend when deciding whether to use it. Treat it like milk. If you know that you will burn it in two weeks (just like drinking a gallon of milk), then go for it. But like milk, it doesn't store for long periods without issue. Which is why most folks don't realize the problem. After all, you run it in your truck. But unlike your truck that you fill up once a week, your boats fuel tank may go months on a single tank and there the problem begins.

As for the filter systems on the market. I highly recommend a 10 micron fuel filter. But don't expect it to be the cure all. If the ethanol fuel has water in suspension, the water will pass through the filter. And if the ethanol fuel has gone through phase separation, the filter will trap the water and allow the fuel (now void of a vital component) to pass on to the fuel system.
As for additives. I am more opposed to them then in favor. If you research their ingredients, you will quickly see that most contain either propanol (which is an alcohol) or naptha (which is camp fuel). The propanol is an alcohol, so if you have E-free fuel, no since in adding an alcohol to it. And naptha is used in the production of rubber and can have a strong adverse effect on rubber (softens is to the point of it becoming the consistency of jello).

One last thing, all the mfgs that I am aware of are and have maintained that the use of more than E10 will void your warranty. That may be helpful to know as the EPA ups the anti to E15.

As a follow up, the E-free is becoming more popular in my part of the world too. All of the small engine techs are warning folks to stay away from it due to the above described reasons. And since E-free contains more BTUs than the ethanol blend, a lot of folks are seeing improved mileages in their vehicles.