I'm not seeing what they're seeing

The KDFW says that the crappie are getting fewer and fewer. They say that the spawns have been low in the past few years and netting results show less and less fish. Well, from what I've seen this winter and from yesterday (yes, it was a tad bit windy but you can't catch them at home on the couch) I have been having to wade through five 7 to 9 inch fish to get one keeper 10 inch. Some beds were full of fish on the depthfinder but when i put a hook in them, all that was there was small ones. This leads me to believe that either the KDFW is netting in places where the fish aren't or something has changed. Now, I have seen them (KDFW) in Big Bear before and they where netting near the bank mostly or in the shallower bays. There had also been a cold front pass through a couple days before so I know that the fish had pulled back off the banks so I'm thinking, "These guys aren't gonna find many fish in there". Also, in Big Bear, the bay has made some changes over the past 5 years. It used to have good color but now the bay is mostly clear. We know (and they know) that white crappie do not like clear water and even when they are in clear water they spook very easily making them harder to catch. I've said that to say this...I have learned that you have to fish for whites and blacks differently. Granted, you will catch both in the same place but to target the species, white crappie seem to prefer a slow moving bait where as blacks like a quicker moving bait. If I troll, I catch mostly blacks. When I vertical jig or spider rig, I catch mostly whites. The only exception to this is in the early spring when the blacks are preparing for the spawn and move in before the whites and I catch them vertical jigging. They are very aggressive at this time of the year and will hit anything moving or not. We as crappie fisherman have had to change our tactics to keep up with the changes in water conditions but has the KDFW? I would like some others input on this.

Oh and by the way, I put my 20 in the boat. Took me four hours but I got'em. Had one that went 2lbs 5 oz.

Just got home from work and sit down to read the paper and guess what? There's an article in there about the same thing I was talking about. It seems now that they realize there has been a change to the lake and are advising changing your technique. This is the same thing some of us here in Kentucky have been preaching about for the past three years. Glad they finally caught on. Now if they will just go and sample deeper water for white crappie, I think they will see that the whites are still here, they have just moved to deeper water.

I've had he same problem Six. I've had days that I had to weed thru 60 dinks to get my limit. Mostly whites. I agree the fish population is down but there sure are a lot of small fish out there.

you know maybe we are going to have to take some of them with us and show them what the fishermen are seeing. Not just on paper. Everything you read is that the that there aren't any fish. Like Whiskers stated maybe the fish are down granted but the small ones are there..

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Originally Posted by buffalo13

you know maybe we are going to have to take some of them with us and show them what the fishermen are seeing. Not just on paper. Everything you read is that the that there aren't any fish. Like Whiskers stated maybe the fish are down granted but the small ones are there..

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This might sound kinda sneaky, but let everyone think there aren't any crappie out there....might leave a little room for me!:)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by buffalo13

you know maybe we are going to have to take some of them with us and show them what the fishermen are seeing. Not just on paper. Everything you read is that the that there aren't any fish. Like Whiskers stated maybe the fish are down granted but the small ones are there..

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They do a lot of creel surveys and ask people on the water what they have been catching. It isn't all just net or shocking data.

(at least they used to)

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Originally Posted by Quackrstackr

They do a lot of creel surveys and ask people on the water what they have been catching. It isn't all just net or shocking data.

(at least they used to)

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Yeah, I've taken part in the creel survey a few times.

Sixfin,
I have been catching 10 small fish to one keeper since last fall . Terry and a lot of the guides on N. KY. Lake are saying the same thing. The KDFW will tell you that there survey is just an estimate but I am seeing different results. Rory Flynn's surveys say just the opposite of the net studies and I think your right on about different fishing techniques produce black verses white results. I was fishing paddle boat harbour by KY.Dam Marina and was thinking that would be a great place for a crappie hatchery and education center. Take care and here is the latest creel survey by KDFW.



Total angler pressure at Kentucky Lake during March – October.

1991 – 1,142,741 hours

2003 – 980,132 hours

2004 – 1,351,675 hours

2007 – 1,077,120 hours



Percent of this effort by crappie anglers

1991 – 45.8%

2003 – 42.3%

2004 – 31.6%

2007 – 37.3%



Number of Crappie Caught

1991 – 627,677

2003 – 456,953

2004 – 355,473

2007 – 371,584



Number of Crappie Harvested

1991 – 345,103

2003 – 249,576

2004 – 190,805

2007 – 230,762



The thing to remember on the number caught and harvested is you have to factor in what type of weather we were having during April, along with water level and other such conditions that affect crappie fishing success. Historically, 50% of the crappie harvested occurs in April. So, when we have those late winter blast in April, or ups and downs with water levels, the catch and harvest of crappie during this one month can have a great impact these numbers for the year. That is why creel data is only one piece of the “management pie”. We also use spring electrofishing and fall trap netting to sample the fish populations to help give us a better picture of what the populations are doing.



Percentage of the Crappie catch that were black crappie

1991 – 12.8%

2003 – 28.1%

2004 – 32.9%

2007 – 31.0%



Average length and weight of white crappie harvested

1991 – 10.7 in / 0.58 lb

2003 – 11.4 in / 0.72 lb

2004 – 11.7 in / 0.78 lb

2007 – 11.1 in / 0.66 lb



Average length and weight of black crappie harvested

1991 – 10.6 in / 0.63 lb

2003 – 11.4 in / 0.81 lb

2004 – 11.2 in / 0.77 lb

2007 – 11.5 in / 0.87 lb



Fishing method used to catch crappie by percent, for all crappie anglers

2003 – still fishing 61.5%, casting 15.3%, trolling 0.2% and spider rigging 23.0%

2004 – still fishing 52.3%, casting 28.7%, trolling 0.3% and spider rigging 18.7%

2007 – still fishing 45.1%, casting 30.7%, trolling 6.8% and spider rigging 17.4%



Still fishing is an angler fishing 1 or 2 poles, normally with a bobber up shallow or vertical fishing the ledges. Casting is someone casting a jig or in-line spinner type bait toward the shoreline, trolling is an angler whose bait is under power and trailing their bait, spider rigging is an angler fishing 3 or more poles most often vertical fishing the ledges or flats.



Fishing success, percentage of anglers that caught crappie

1991 – 44.4%

2003 – 54.5%

2004 – 47.6%

2007 – 51.4%



This data is from our fall trap netting for crappie. CPUE means the number of crappie that we caught per net night. Normally we fish a total of 80 net nights. That is 20 nets for 4 nights. This chart is for only the crappie that were 10 inches and larger that we caught in the nets. As an example in 2007 we caught about 6 harvestable size crappie per net night. That means we probably caught slightly more than 500 crappie 10 inches or larger. However, with trap nets we are really interested more in the small fish, what we call the young of the year, or what was spawned. Also the age 1 fish, what was spawned last year. We know it takes on average 3 years for a crappie to reach 10 inches. We can use the catch of these smaller fish to predict future fishing success. The increase in number for 2007 is due to good years classes produced in 2002 and 2003, but mostly by the 2003 year class, which were age 4 fish.

Attachment 25537







This is a chart for the age 1 crappie that we caught in trap nets. Notice the scale on the left has changed from the above chart. A lot of the crappie that will be caught by anglers this year will be from that strong year class produced in 2003, but on this graph they are age 1 and showed up in 2004. This year these fish will be age 5. This is getting to be an old crappie. The poorer year classes produced in 2004, 2005 and 2006 are represented by the declining numbers of age 1 crappie caught in 2005, 2006 and 2007. Looking at the age 0 chart, the 2007 spawn looks like it will be poor also, further increasing the decline. Hence, why we have dropped the creel limit to 20.

Attachment 25538

Man ifish that is some good info. I really like to see things in black & white :D as opposed to gut feeling. Thanks man. I need to start hang'n around with you more.

Thanks for the info ifish. This is what I've been looking for. I still have a couple of questions. (1) When you do the netting, how deep are you and is the water clarity taken into consideration? (2) Also, are the weather patterns and lake levels taken into consideration, i.e. did the level just drop or rise a great deal in the past few days..did a cold front or storm just pass through? I'm not doubting your information, just trying to get a handle on how its taken.
What brought all this on is that I too thought something was happening to the fish. I was not catching fish in the same places or with the same technique that had worked so well for me in the past. So I started talking around to some more experienced fisherman and looking through my log book to see if I could figure it out what was going on. They told me I was gonna have to change some things if I still wanted catch fish. They said the lake is changing and I'm gonna have to change. So I did and my catches have improved but I'm having to fish a lot different and in different places that I used to. Much like when I was a kid and my Dad used to take me. We always hit the buck brush and button bushes but those days are long gone. The shore line changed and the back of the bays started filling in so we had to change our styles. Ah, the good ole days!
I will agree that the North end of Ky lake has taken a beating over the years. Improved electronics and more fishing pressure has really put a dent in the population. And I am glad to see that KDFW has decided to put some time and money into the study of the crappie population. I'm just concerned that maybe some of the proposed solutions may be premature before we have taken everything into consideration. For one example, the consideration of closing off the back of the bays during spring. Man, that would really hurt the tourist industry and the income of the resorts and guides. Please don't get me wrong. I'm all for saving the crappie population but maybe we need to take some other things into consideration before laying down some new rules. Again, thank you so much for the info. Keep up the good work.

thanks for the info ifish. this is some good stuff

thanks Ifish