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hey guys, I know this topic has been talked about before, but I can't find it. Getting ready to dye some white kiptails. I know I want to try pink and maybe some faded chartruese. Question is, what are ya'll using to successfully dye kiptails? Rit dye doesn't seem to get the job done, to my satisfaction. Will sugar free kool-aid do a better job? Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Run"dying hair" through the search engine. There has been a lot of discussion on this. Hope this helps a little. Mike
Dyeing Bucktails, cow tails or marabou is not all that difficult. First, using a sharp knife, debone the tails and remove the fat. The key is wash and degrease the Bucktails in cold water. Use any household detergent (Tide works well as does Simple Green). Rinse well, be careful not to break hairs. Comb them to get all the burrs and other debris off, especially blood.
You can utilize common RIT dye or even Kool-Aid on Bucktails; just use hot water with the dye. Use an old soup kettle to heat water and dye. Once water is over 180 degrees, shut off heat and put in cleaned tails and stir for about 10 minutes. Simmer for about 45 minutes or until all the color is gone. During this time, carefully turn the fiber periodically in the dye bath so it absorbs the color more evenly. Remove, rinse well and hang to dry.
Thanks for the info ya'll! I found some good stuff on the hair dying threads, and on ship's response. Thinking about trying kool-aid first, then if that doesn't work good enough, I'll probably get some dye from dharma trading co. I know it's cheaper to buy them already dyed, but it seems that the quality and length of hair is better on the white ones I buy from barlows. Ive gotten a pink one that had hair so short I could hardly grab it with my fingers, and the white ones and chartruese ones had good hair. Also Ive gotten plain yellow in place of yellow chartruese. I usually order the jumbo ones. The hair on my pinkie jigs is about an inch, so it must be a little longer than that when I cut it off the tail. Kid goat hair is supposed to be excellent, although Ive not handled any. It's fine and fairly straight, might have to order some of that from petes fly shop. I do have a momma goat on my farm, but she's right scittish, It would be tough stalking up on her!
ok, heres the deal. this dying thing aint working out too good for me. My confidence is shattered. lol I dyed two white kiptails red with rit dye. Hot water salt etc, it was a medium dull red, and if you looked close you could see parts of each hair that didnt take the dye. The other two white tails were dyed turqoise blue with powdered water soluble dye, from a woodcraft store, I think. This dye was very concentrated, and I added salt and baking soda, and heated the water to a boil at first. Same results as with the red, and the hide could be pulled apart as well. All four tails went in the trash can. I don,t get it! The ones I buy are so beautiful, and rich, and vibrant in color. They must use a very very concentrated dye, or a whole lot of it. And on top of being great in color, they don't look like they have been stirred in hot water. They look like they have been simply dipped in and taken out, because the hair isn't even ruffled. Believe me, when you put these things in the hot water and stir them a little, they look all ratty and bedragled when you take them out, and even when you comb them out and let them dry, they still look ratty and ruffled. So in my opinion, the commercial people are using a dye that very easily does they job. Has anyone out there gotten the results you see with the commercially dyed calftails?
Are you washing the tails first with Dawn or something, so they'll take the dye?
Quote:
Originally Posted by smoothlures
That is what I suggested for Redear to do in my original post. You HAVE TO degrease the tail first! If he does that as you and I said smoothlures then he will have better results.
yeah guys, I degreased the tails. First I bleached them for about an hour, then rinsed them good, then washed them in hot soapy water with hand detergent in it, then rinsed repeatedly again.
oh, somebody on here somewhere said they were using dye from dharma trading co. and getting good results. Well I googled up the company, and they had at least four types of dye, so I couldn't determine which one would be the best.
Only other thing I would suggest Redear is to add a little vinegar ...apple cider vinegar) and salt to the mixture. Try it again and let the tails sit in it longer stirring occasionally.
Like I have mentioned use what works and here is the best I know of. Just check on fly tying boards for info like this. You may have to search for a place to buy it.
This came from Fly Anglers OnLine
Skip
Using VENIARDS Fly Tying DYE
By Jim Smith, Yorkshire Spider Flies
Dyeing your own feathers and fur is often the only way you have to get the exact colour you want for that special pattern or even that old traditional that you want to tie. If you use a well proven dye like Veniards fly tiers dye it is not difficult or messy and can develop into an interesting pastime for when you are not at the fly tiers bench.
The old traditional methods while effective were very complicated. If you have an interest in trying the old methods then can I suggest as a starter you get hold of a copy of Irish Trout and Salmon Flies by E J Malone which has just been republished in paperback. Not only does the book contain a fabulous array of traditional fly patterns but has a good chapter on dying by the old methods. Using modern dyes like Veniards you will find the process simple and economical.
Veniards Dyes are usually available around the world from the wide range of fly shops that sell veniards fly tying products. There is a full range of colours, around forty, which have been designed to meet the needs of both traditional and innovative fly tiers. The dyes are very strong so are very economical to use. Veniards sell them in 15 gm tubes and a tube will last the average tier years.
The equipment you will need is very simple and can be "stolen" from the kitchen. Veniards recommend that two aluminium saucepans are used, a small one which can fit inside one slightly larger. The smaller one is perforated on the bottom and sides so it becomes like a colander. An alternative is a cooks wire mesh sieve or a wire mesh potato chip (french fry) basket. The colander holds the material to be dyed and stands inside the larger saucepan of dye holding the material. It will hold a good amount of small feathers or larger feathers cut in pieces. The idea in using the colander or perforated saucepan is that it allows easy inspection of material which can be lifted out of the bath inspected and then resubmerged. It also helps keep you clean as contact with the dye bath is kept to a minimum but you should wear rubber kitchen gloves anyway. Veniards recommended colander method is probably best if you are new to dyeing.
Most of my dyeing is of loose fur and I use a different method. I have a shallow aluminium pan (it's actually part of an old egg poacher!) which holds the dye and I put the material loose in the pan. To separate material from the dye bath when it's dyed pour the dye and loose fur through a fine mesh cook's sieve. Alternatively you can put material like loose fur in a length of nylon stocking tied up at each end. The dye easily works through the stocking. I find the large shallow pan easier to dye capes (necks) and saddles and get a nice even dying of loose furs like seal. It is more difficult to add extra dye if the strength is wrong though.
There is no doubt the key to successful results is the proper treatment of the material before dyeing. This simply means ensuring that the material is clean and free of grease. Veniards recommend using a solution of soap powder or any good detergent to soak the material for a few minutes which should then be rinsed well. Waterfowl feathers will need a longer soaking to help remove the natural grease that they are gifted with. The usual process is quite simple. Using the larger saucepan, prepare a solution of soap powder or any good detergent. Place the feathers to be dyed in the smaller perforated saucepan (colander) and soak for a few minutes. (Waterfowl feathers must be soaked considerably longer to allow penetration of the natural oil coating). My preferred way of preparing loose seal fur dubbing, capes and saddles is to use a cheap supermarket brand shampoo with a conditioner in it and work it well into the material. Yes the conditioner does make a difference!
Once the feathers or fur have been washed in your choice of soap, detergent or shampoo a thorough rinsing needs to take place. I do this by placing the material in the wire sieve or colander and rinsing thoroughly under the tap.
Veniards also market a special super strength detergent called venpol for extra dirty or greasy materials. I normally do not need to use Venpol. But if you are dying extra dirty greasy materials like Buck tails you will find it useful. It is very concentrated so the amount you need to use is quite small. Veniards recommend 1 part in 160. Half a fluid once of venpol is enough for 4 pints of water. Hackles only require a soaking of a few minutes but buck tails may benefit from a few hours or an overnight soak.
Once you have prepared your material you can move on to the dying process which is very easy. Put water in your pan to a little above the half full mark and gently heat on the stove. Add dye to the water which should be usually at the rate of a quarter of a teaspoon of dye to 2 pints of water for ordinary feathers and furs and double the amount of dye for waterfowl feathers. Allow the dye solution to come to the boil stirring the mixture so all the dye is dissolved. To fix the colour you must add vinegar, one tablespoon full per quarter teaspoon of dye, to the solution. If you are dying dark colours you will find you need a stronger solution of dye and pro rata more vinegar. Black is a very difficult colour, I use a teaspoon of dye per 2 pints of water.
Put your feathers in the dye bath and bring the solution back to the boil. Simmer the materials gently keeping the material moving all the time. You must allow time for the colour to develop. The dyes are all a mixture of three colours which do not fix and penetrate at the same rate so if you remove the material too early you will not get the shade you want. Feathers, when they are wet, look darker than they will be dry, so bear that in mind when examining them. Most shades develop in 3 or 4 minutes.
If you are using a "colander" then inspection is made simple. You lift out the colander and the dye runs through the holes back into the pan leaving the material for inspection in the bottom. Remember when you are looking at your material that it will dry to a lighter shade. If you are not achieving the correct shade then it is a simple matter to add more dye and vinegar to the dye bath if you are using a colander. Try holding a feather up to the light to get a better idea of its shade.
You will find that bright shades like red yellow and green highlander are achieved very easily. The more subtle colours can be spoiled by using too much dye, so for delicate olives and shades of dun start with a little dye and add more if needed. You will quickly learn, believe me, nothing about dying with Veniards dye is difficult.
As mentioned above black needs special attention. I use nearly a full teaspoon of dye and leave the dye bath cooking for as long as possible at the simmer. Once I have given the material a good simmering I do not remove the material from the bath but leave it overnight to go cold before straining the dye off in the morning. This usually results in a nice rich glossy black.
When you have reached the shade you want, remove the colander from the dye bath and put under the cold tap to rinse. Keep rinsing until the water runs clear. Blot the material to remove surplus moisture, then place on paper till air dried.
One trick advocated by Veniards is to put partially dried hackles in a cardboard lid which is then held over a gas ring and shaken gently until dry. A fierce heat can be used if the material is kept on the move. I like to use my wife's hairdryer!
You will find there is an infinite range of shades available to you by varying the strength of dyes and by experimenting with mixing dyes. Remember that you cannot dye something lighter you can only dye things darker. So a Red hackle from say a Rhode Island red chicken will dye Black Claret and Purple but for the shades of dun and olive you need a white hackle.
Key Points to Remember
1. Always remove all traces of detergent from material by rinsing thoroughly.
2. Keep feathers on the move when the dye bath is at boiling point or just under.
3. Do not add more dye to a bath when there is material in it. Use the colander to lift the material out first.
4. Its better to start with a weaker dye bath and add dye to it if needed.
5. Make sure that material is rinsed properly after it is dyed.
6. Do not dry with fierce heat as it will "kill" the material.
7. You cannot dye a dark material light. Start with white material for subtle and bright colours. ~ Jim Smith
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Good information as always Skip. Glad to see your posts.
Mike
Thanks guys, for the informative posts. I really want to get some veniards dye and try that. One of the colors that I want to dye the kiptails is hot pink, and it seems that this color is almost impossible to find, and I don't believe veniards puts it out either. could be wrong though. And the vinegar thing, I'll be sure to try that too, I did put some in the first batch, with rit.
I found another dye that is made by a company called orco, It's called fly dye. They also have hot pink, Has anyone used this dye?