Question for the anti live sonar folks

I have FFS sonar and enjoy it, for me it's the learning new stuff part I enjoy most.

For the folks that are dead set against FFS I have a question. What level of technology is acceptable? A flasher with a cane pole in a wooden boat with a sculling paddle? Hand control trolling motor and LCD sonar? I can see crappie on my side and down scan, is that too much? Are the new trolling motors that have anchor mode and can follow trails too much? All the boat operator has to do is turn it on and set the speed and let the TM drive.

I'm just curious what peoples thought are. For my part, if it's legal I'm okay with it, there are fishing methods I don't care to use, but I'm not going to berate folks who do enjoy it.

If the KYDFW feels they need to reduce the limit on the lakes I fish, I'm fine with that too. I'm not a huge threat to catch more than the current limit anyway. :biggrin

Strange the haters scream about FFS wiping out the fish. But then loudest ones against lowering limits for everyone.:twocents Some even say they never catch limits but opposed to lower limits ? Where is their sign as Foxworthy used to say . :Rofl

I'm not anti-FFS, but it would seem that FFS is where some draw the line. Some fishing tournaments for example. No one ever balked at Spot Lock, Side Scan, power motors, etc.
I would like to fish with FFS, it looks cool. But I don't really desire to buy the setup. Individual tastes vary.

I agree, if it's legal then I'm good with it. I dont want FFS because I dont want to fish that way. I'd rather troll with lots of jigs out the back of my boat. Kudos to those that have FFS. Enjoy it!;):)

I'm not a hater just preach Crappie Anglers should know or learn how to fish before playing the video game. Take the game away and they go hungry. The few I know around here with FFS are no threat to the Crappie population because they use it. In fact I have never seem any of them with a legal limit of fish caught by themselves. I have it on every boat I own but rarely use it. Like the bait the fish want to bite, better to have it in the boat already is my :twocents.

I used to hunt with longbow and recurve but and injury forced me to go high tech with a crossbow. What injury or disability forced you to go high tech? As far as ethics and legality that seems to change by region, circumstances, or the person.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rojo

I'm not a hater just preach Crappie Anglers should know or learn how to fish before playing the video game. Take the game away and they go hungry. The few I know around here with FFS are no threat to the Crappie population because they use it. In fact I have never seem any of them with a legal limit of fish caught by themselves. I have it on every boat I own but rarely use it. Like the bait the fish want to bite, better to have it in the boat already is my :twocents.

---

I can agree with the first part, but I think live sonar helps shorten the learning curve. I respectfully disagree about them going hungry, at least here. Most of the guys I know fishing with it are good fishermen and didn't miss any meals before FFS. I also think there are some okay fishermen that it has made into good fishermen, it has put the pieces of the puzzle together.

For my part limits are fun to catch and brag about but it doesn't define the outing. If someone is judging me by whether or not I catch my limit or the techniques I'm using, I want nothing to do with them. I have always just kept what I wanted and turned back the rest, last winter and early this spring I kept enough fish to get me through the summer until it starts cooling off. Then, I'll get after them again.

deleted

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MCG1

I used to hunt with longbow and recurve but and injury forced me to go high tech with a crossbow. What injury or disability forced you to go high tech? As far as ethics and legality that seems to change by region, circumstances, or the person.

---

So like the OP asked, what level of tech is acceptable? Do you fish with a cane pole from a canoe carved out of a tree? Anything more than that would be considered high tech based on your statement.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by justinp61

......For my part limits are fun to catch and brag about but it doesn't define the outing.......

---

Well said!

I would tend to think we are only seeing a small window into the future . It is totally apparent some that couldn’t ketch a crappie to save their lives have benefited from it and some who never needed as well .
Do I personally need or want it , nope , I can hammer pretty easily right from the dock or the bank year round . But I must remain perfectly clear on this part .
If you need it or want it and like it who cares if it’s legal .. . .
Use what you want and ketch em how you like to is the word ….
Heck in Canada them Indian reservations net em and sell filets by the pound ….:Rofl

I have live sonar and enjoy using it, it's fun to see a crappie get excited and hit your jig. Could I do without it, I would rather not. But the combination of electronics most useful to me are a spotlock TM, and GPS mapping with a heading sensor.

To me it takes away the "me against the fish". I want to rely on picking a likely spot, fishing it, then being excited and surprised if I get bit. I don't want a scripted fishing experience. I see the fish. Here it comes. Wait...wait...set the hook now. Where is the surprise and excitement??? If you enjoy that kind of day on the water, then more power to you. I'm just not that guy. I not a hater but please leave me some fish :biggrin

Before FFS my favorite method was single pole jigging brushpiles and stake beds. Now with FFS I fish for open water roamers and schools more. I still love to drop a jig down in those old brushpiles too.
I never knock anybody’s choice of techniques, FFS or not, minnows or jigs, ect. At the end of the day, if they obeyed the game laws, they have a limit and I have a limit. Where does it make a difference?



Sent from my iPad using Crappie.com Fishing mobile app

To each their own. It sure helps me on most lakes that have finicky fish. Like someone once said- If you ain't scopin', you're hopin'!

I've used FFS for only 1 year so far, and I've still gone home with an empty livewell a few times because the fish simply wouldn't bite--it is still amazing to watch a fish look at a jig and then swim away. I still didn't catch any limits this year, although the time to setup and figure out what the fish wanted to bite did get reduced because I was able to see what is happening below the water in real time. Additionally, I still mostly spider rig (w/ jigs) or long line troll (w/ crankbaits), so it's not like I'm going to a spot and singling out 2-3lb crappie exclusively.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jjue1979

I've used FFS for only 1 year so far, and I've still gone home with an empty livewell a few times because the fish simply wouldn't bite--it is still amazing to watch a fish look at a jig and then swim away. I still didn't catch any limits this year, although the time to setup and figure out what the fish wanted to bite did get reduced because I was able to see what is happening below the water in real time. Additionally, I still mostly spider rig (w/ jigs) or long line troll (w/ crankbaits), so it's not like I'm going to a spot and singling out 2-3lb crappie exclusively.

---

That pretty much sums up my experience, I haven't had mine a year yet though. I cast 99% of the time, I'm just looking to catch fish, not specifically targeting anything but crappie. It seems that there is a misconception that if you install FFS you catch limits of giants every time you go. That's just not the truth.

Someone mentioned ethics, FFS sonar has nothing to do with one's ethics. If you're the type of person who don't follow the fishing regulations, you're not going to follow them regardless of if you're fishing from the bank with a cane pole and bobber or out of a $120k Ranger with all the latest electronics.

I have a Lowrance Hook 5 depthfinder on my kayak and it works pretty well. I read the structure and thermocline to find fish and don't hunt individual fish like Live Scope helps with. My hands stay full of a paddle, rods, or net when I'm fishing. Adding anything else hand operated would just complicate matters and give me too much to concentrate on. I catch enough that I don't really think I need L/S.

For the record, I drive a truck where the key goes in the dashboard. It doesn't have GPS, push button start, or blue tooth audio, because what I have works good and the truck gets me where I want to go. My kayak seems to like it too. I won't say that I'll never switch to L/S, but I'm happy with what I've got.

Jim

I am a keep it simple person. It is not about what I find acceptable. It is about what I find preferable. For anyone else as long as it is legal I have no objection to it. I fish out of a canoe with no electronics of any kind. That is the fishing experience that I enjoy most. Others have different preferences. You do you and I'll do me.


Sent from my Pixel 6 using Crappie.com Fishing mobile app

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rojo

The few I know around here with FFS are no threat to the Crappie population because they use it.

---

Rojo you & me have never met. :Rofl

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jjue1979

I've used FFS for only 1 year so far, and I've still gone home with an empty livewell a few times because the fish simply wouldn't bite--it is still amazing to watch a fish look at a jig and then swim away. I still didn't catch any limits this year, although the time to setup and figure out what the fish wanted to bite did get reduced because I was able to see what is happening below the water in real time. Additionally, I still mostly spider rig (w/ jigs) or long line troll (w/ crankbaits), so it's not like I'm going to a spot and singling out 2-3lb crappie exclusively.

---

My very first fish caught with FFS was a nice slab I caught while spider rigging. It was so cool to watch it turn on a dime and snag my bait!


Sent from my iPad using Crappie.com Fishing mobile app

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rojo

I'm not a hater just preach Crappie Anglers should know or learn how to fish before playing the video game. Take the game away and they go hungry. The few I know around here with FFS are no threat to the Crappie population because they use it. In fact I have never seem any of them with a legal limit of fish caught by themselves. I have it on every boat I own but rarely use it. Like the bait the fish want to bite, better to have it in the boat already is my :twocents.

---

Here it is more about presentation than bait or color . If you can put it on their nose most can't turn it down .
:twocents

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by slabbandit

My very first fish caught with FFS was a nice slab I caught while spider rigging. It was so cool to watch it turn on a dime and snag my bait!


Sent from my iPad using Crappie.com Fishing mobile app

---

Yeah, learning presentation is a key that I picked up on when I first started using Livescope. It is also interesting watching the fish reject one color combo during part of the day and then come back to it later and start rejecting the combo that was working earlier.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

It'll be interesting to see if we each have the same views in 5 years as we do today about it.

FFS allows you to catch more fish, but it is still up to you whether or not to keep said fish. If you can afford FFS, I doubt that you are needing a mess of fish to keep your family fed! :twocents

I personally don't care how many I catch. If I am having a good day I'll hang on to enough for a meal because I like eating them. I like the surprise of the tug on the hook when I find a fish after wondering if they are there or not. If I was able to watch the fish actually come to my lure and either take it or not it would ruin the fishing for me. That's just my personal feeling. I get out on the water to get away from technology not to embrace it even more.


Sent from my Pixel 6 using Crappie.com Fishing mobile app

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jjue1979

Yeah, learning presentation is a key that I picked up on when I first started using Livescope. It is also interesting watching the fish reject one color combo during part of the day and then come back to it later and start rejecting the combo that was working earlier.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

---

I cast most of the time and keep four rods on the deck. If I haven't fished in a while they'll all have different color jig bodies on them and usually a couple different weight jig heads. With FFS I've seen crappie ignore one color or two, they may follow one and not bite it. If they follow but don't bite, I'll put something on with similar colors on, sometimes that does the trick, and they'll start biting and sometimes they won't bite anything I try. I wonder how many fish over the years I've unknowingly left because I didn't try the right color.

I had been a spider rigging and long line troller for years but LS changed that back to single pole where you can see where the fish are in the water column.
You can see them but that doesn’t mean you can catch them all.
I don’t fish to keep them anymore but enjoy single pole fishing again with LS.


Sent from my iPhone using Crappie.com Fishing mobile app

Lots of great posts on this thread. Thanks.

I'm no hater by any means. I live for the days that the 50k dollar bass boat rolls up on me and my tin can, then tells me where the fish are and proceeds to never get bitten. I have the FF that is capable of LS, but I only use the sidescan and downscan to tell me where the bait fish are. Both FF are primarily used as flashers. One depth reading off the front, one off of the back. It helps me start to determine the depth to run my jig, which we all know that's only one small piece of the crappie puzzle.

I personally would like to have it to save me time on spots since I can't move from place to place as quickly as the other boats. I'm bad about spending too much time on some spots that don't yield any fish.

As a novice fisherman, I feel like I would learn more about the fish and their behavior on my "bad" days. Either way, I don't judge you if you have it. I do judge those without it because we are in the same boat ;)

One advantage LS gives me that does not get mentioned a lot is boat placement or control. After using the device for a couple of years now ,
I can see why there were times when fishing on the right side of the boat was productive and could not get a bite on the other side.
Now I like to position my boat so the brushpile is at 1 or 2 oclock .

MO

To each their own is what I say - with limits on conservation. I've seen folks spider rigs with twelve poles out, two shiners on each pole here in Louisiana. 24 shiners in the water at one time. Another here post 100+ caught for a "church social fish fry". Boats with 10" screens on the console, another two on the bow to catch fish. They then post - Look what I caught!!!

Folks complain about size limits, creel count, etc. on their waters they fish. LS is fine to those that find it necessary to catch what they want. I'm okay with that if that's what they want to do. I don't go fishing just to catch fish. My freezer has just enough.

Randy has it down to what I typically think about the "need" for anything other than a rod and some line and a jig .
if I needed to do it and it was legal I might consider it , but it is really pretty easy to ketch a load of fish right off the bank or dock for me ....
sides all that , we are not fans of depreciating assets in our lives , on the up side , folks using it reduce the learning curve immensely and could likely use what they have learned to ketch fish in the future in scenarios that do not have LS :highfive
keep in mind this about that , I am not "anti" anything that is legal , trotline them if its legal and or cast net them .....no worries here , it is much like the spider rigging that folks use to do all the time ,not my speed for sure , but I still tend to think if it makes you happy and its legal go for it

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ALBuzz

the days that the 50k dollar bass boat rolls up on me and my tin can, then tells me where the fish are and proceeds to never get bitten.

---

50K is a Tin Can these Days! :Rofl

Try 100K!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by keeferfish

50K is a Tin Can these Days! :Rofl

Try 100K!

---

100 is without the 25 worth of electronics and at 100 it's likely on sale as well .....
last pretty nice bad boy I looked at was 110 with no electronics to speak of and on sale for 100
our latest property was bought for $37,500 and likely worth about 100 k 6 moths later ....
of course it won't let me watch fish and it doesn't fly down the lake , but .....
it makes me happy and in the end , happy beats sad by a zillion miles ....for sure :highfive

Livescope has shown us here colors no big deal. Presentation is biggest thing, put it on their nose. Catch them on about anything we put of their nose. These jigs made from Walmart sacks as a joke hammer them.:biggrin

Attachment 491029

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NIMROD

Livescope has shown us here colors no big deal. Presentation is biggest thing, put it on their nose. Catch them on about anything we put of their nose. These jigs made from Walmart sacks as a joke hammer them.:biggrin

Attachment 491029

---

we used Swedish fish way back when, poking fun at them folks , that insisted we need to use a whatever to ketch them .....
they will bite just about anything if it's presented properly :highfive

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NIMROD

Livescope has shown us here colors no big deal. Presentation is biggest thing, put it on their nose. Catch them on about anything we put of their nose. These jigs made from Walmart sacks as a joke hammer them.:biggrin

Attachment 491029

---

I first noticed this ice fishing using electronics, as well as with livescope now. As long as you wiggle it just right and put it where it needs to be, along with fishing the fish and not the bait (adjust your motion based on how the fish is acting/reacting) a crappie will eat just about anything.

Sight fishing is the same way, you can use any jig you want as long as you fish it correctly. I usually pick the biggest bright white or pink bait i have so i can see it well, theyll eat almost every time as long as you fish the fish correctly. I've dropped a jig and nightcrawler on a crappies nose and made him eat it MANY times while sight fishing bluegill and spot a random crappie.


From my experience you can make about 9/10 crappies you see on livescope eat the bait as long as you dont spook them.

Sent from my SM-A516U using Crappie.com mobile app

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ketchn

Randy has it down to what I typically think about the "need" for anything other than a rod and some line and a jig .
if I needed to do it and it was legal I might consider it , but it is really pretty easy to ketch a load of fish right off the bank or dock for me ....
sides all that , we are not fans of depreciating assets in our lives , on the up side , folks using it reduce the learning curve immensely and could likely use what they have learned to ketch fish in the future in scenarios that do not have LS :highfive
keep in mind this about that , I am not "anti" anything that is legal , trotline them if its legal and or cast net them .....no worries here , it is much like the spider rigging that folks use to do all the time ,not my speed for sure , but I still tend to think if it makes you happy and its legal go for it

---

It seems "need" come up quite a bit in these conversations. I don't know one person that runs live sonar that "needs" it to catch fish. Do we "need" ten rods spread out covering thirty-five feet to catch fish? Do we "need" a ton of different color and style jigs to catch fish? Do I "need" four casting rods to catch crappie? Should we be limited to just what we "need" to go fishing?

For me live sonar is just another tool for finding fish, it complements the other "tools" on the boat. Years ago, my wife came in my shop, one of the screwdriver drawers on my tool box was open. She looked at it and asked me if I "needed" all those screwdrivers? I said no, but some do different jobs than others.

BTW, I fish out of a twenty two year old tin boat and normally launch near where I'm going to spend the day fishing. I'd love to have another bass boat but can't justify the costs that go along with one.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jay the baptist

It'll be interesting to see if we each have the same views in 5 years as we do today about it.

---

Or tens years, and you think to yourself how good the fishing used to be;) There’s lots of lakes up here with special limits and size restrictions all ready, lakes that were great fishing lakes in my younger years… The guy that cleans my carpet won one of the bigger local Walleye tournaments last year I asked him how they did it, FFS he said if they didn’t bite we kept changing baits casting and following them…
FFS is a powerful tool, way more powerful then anything previously available, if history is any indicator,we humans have away with being extremely hard on natural resources and then have to scramble to try and fix things.