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Hi everyone, Im looking for a new rod that can cast the lightest of light lures the farthest. I dont care about sensitivity or twitching or price. The goal of the rod is only distance if we lets say using 2lb fluoro for reference and my line is spooled perfectly to the edge of my reel.
Just want a rod that can absolutely launch a 1gram jig or 1/100oz or at minimum 1/64 oz jig 70’+. Is this even possible or would i have no choice but to get a fly rod?
Sounds like some of the JDM rods would fill those needs
See this topic by gillchaser,, he has been playing and doing some measuring.
Found my combo (crappie.com)
Personally I like the BnM TCB rod. Very good rod and affordable.
Leland's TCB (Trout, Crappie, Bluegill) Rod - B'n'M Pole Company
This one can be all over the place. I have tested many rods for distance. The fact is the results may surprise you. Soft, noodle rods do not cast a 1 gram as good as a more rigid rod. I have found when doing cast tests with 1/64 weight longer rods will not necessarily get you more distance. It can be a crap shoot. If I was wanting great casting distance I would use some other line other than FC. I get the best casting distance with the Varivas Ester or the Varivas Infinity PE. I have many high quality JDM rods. I do not get anymore casting distance with them using a 1/64 than I do with the BnM TCB rod. Of course we do more with the rod than cast…if I’m really needing the best casting distance to go along with sensitivity I will use a solid tip rod.
Regards
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From what I’ve read here on CDC and other places , most JDM tackle users use 1.5g or heavier jigs plus the weight of whatever plastic body you add to your jig . A 1/16oz jighead should be 1.7g . All jigheads are not created equal.
A 1/64 Trout Magnet and body weighs right at 1g .
I first started my experiments using the TM and body as my common denominator.
But since I started , I’ve discovered some tiny spinners that seem to catch everything, but they weigh .7g .
I’ve found The rods that cast the 1/64 TM and 1/32 jigheads with a TM body , do not cast these little spinners the most distance.
I’ve found my 5’ St Croix rods , the Triumph , the Premier , and the Avid casts a few feet farther than my 6’ and 6’3” Abu Garcia Mass Beat 3 rods , which were king of distance with the 1/64 and heavier jigs .
But , the best distance casters have been the two piece St Croix 5’6” ultralight rods . We’re talking six to ten feet farther than a 6’ rod .
I found the Fuji guides work better than the newer all chrome guides .
I think , and it’s only a theory, the longer rods add drag to the line along with the extra guides the line has to go through.
You add weight the drag is eliminated.
The faster you get the line free of the guides , the more momentum the lure maintains.
Reels make a difference too , or maybe I should say spool lips . Newer designs in spool lip shape allows the line to come off the spool better. “Some” 500 size reels have better spools than “some” 2000 size reels .
Another factor is the size of the first guide , or stripper guide , it’s called . Smaller stripper guides and micro guides all slow down the line with a lightweight lure .
Remember also the shape of your lure can make a difference, some lures are more aerodynamic than others .
I saw this back when I was fishing a 3’ senko on UL . When I fished it wacky style , I would get less distance than I would fished Ned style .
Hope this helps .
Right now my top casters are both St Croix 5’6” ULF rods , a Premier and my newest an Avid .
They are a lot of fun when you get a fish on too, no matter what the size .
BTW , I’m still testing and experimenting, almost everyday .
If there’s more info to add after those two posts, I don’t have it. I have some custom built rods with 8 guides that cast well and control a fish excellent, but im not convinced that my 5’6” lightning rod with four guides doesn’t cast as good or better. My thought is that below about 1/48 it just gets tough to cast em. And we haven’t talked about the effects of wind with the super lights. Both casting and sensitivity take a hit when the wind gets up. Even small braid gets blown around but is more sensitive in my opinion. I feel hits on taught bowed line with the tiny braid I use that I don’t feel, or don’t feel as much with mono line and a small jig. My normal jig is about a 1/48 and I’m happy with its performance in most every way. Only one thing helps when the wind gets up, and that’s patience.
I got my new reel today , a Shimano Soare XR 500SPG .
I spooled it up with my favorite line , 2# P-Line Floroclear. Floroclear isn’t 100% Fluorocarbon. It a fluorocarbon coated copolymer line not as stiff as 100% Fluorocarbon.
I tried the new reel on a few rods for distance.
4’6” St Croix Premier
5’ Daiwa Trout X XUL
5’6” Daiwa Trout X XUL
5’5” Daiwa Ajing UL
All of these would cast the tiny spinner between 38-41’ .
40’ with a .7g lightweight lure is a good cast .
Then I put it on my new St Croix 5’6” Avid ULF and first cast was around 42’ . My casts ranged from 41-46’ with the Avid .
This is measured casting in my driveway. If there’s wind I wait for a lull .
I do use a size 0 barrel swivel 10-12” above a wire snap , that allows me to change lures .
The other day I tried a 1g spoon on my 5’6” Premier and almost doubled my distance.
The type and diameter of the line can be a deciding factor when casting super lightweight jigs. A friend of mine uses 4lb Berkley NanoFil (dyneema) for trout and claims it gives him the most distance with jigs down to 1/64oz. I wanted to try NanoFil but a Berkley rep told me it's being discontinued.
As for rod guides proponents claim rods with micro guides cast further than rods with standard guides due to less line line slap. Micro guides are becoming more popular with American rod makers too. I have several JDM rods and all have micro guides so there must be something to this concept. If you do a search you will find many articles claiming micro guides increase casting distance as well as some weight savings.
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I’ve read the articles, and on casting rods I can see it being an advantage.Quote:
Originally Posted by MtnFisher
Micro guides on the last third of a spinning rod will help with distance, but a lot of the JDM rods I own have smaller stripper guides and I think they hinder casting distance , depending on the diameter of the spool of the reel used .
Large diameter spools need the coils to gradually taper into the guides . If the coils are larger than the stripper guide they are slamming into the guide , being squeezed into it , slowing down the line speed .
I’ve tried several rods and reel combinations.
With light lures , you don’t have the power to pull big coils through small stripper guides .
I get what you are saying but a smaller diameter and slick braid line won't have much coils coming off the spool and that's what micro guides were designed to do, minimize coils. I did some test casting last winter with a 1/32 oz jig and a couple of my JDM rods with micro guides. The Berkley X9 6lb with. 003 diameter performed real well. I'm sure one of the JDM small diameter lines would work even better but I'm fishing for large trout and not pan fish so I'm sticking with Berkley X9. I do use line conditioner which seems to help. Micro guides do seem to be the real deal, I'll leave my trust in the Japanese rod engineers.Quote:
Originally Posted by gillchaser999
Making sense of micro guides - Bassmaster
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I read the article and this one line stood out to me the most “ Tied to the end of the line was a standard 3/8-ounce casting plug. “Quote:
Originally Posted by MtnFisher
Try that with 1g lure and I believe you’ll get different results .
More weight pulling on the line , straightens the line so it glides through the micro guides .
With lightweight lures , you don’t have the weight to straighten the line , so you need a gradual reduction in guide size to allows the coils to unwind.
Larger stripper guides allow the line coils to freely pass through the first few guides as what little weight of the lure straightens out the coils .
Whe the microwave guides came out , my opinion was they’ll be great on a medium or medium light rod casting a 1/4 ounce or heavier lure , but with a lighter lure the coils will jam up at the first guide . A gimmick IMO .
No jamming of coils at all. Even the Leland TSS rod has a micro guides and is designed to cast light lures. Pictured is the bottom guide on my TSS rod. Not a gimmick. Attachment 462961Quote:
Originally Posted by gillchaser999
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It all depends on what’s the definition of “light lures “ .Quote:
Originally Posted by MtnFisher
A Trout Magnet and body weighs around 1/32nd ounce . I’m talking about lure weights 1/32 and less .
I know what I’ve cast .
I don’t have a TSS , but I do have the TCB , along with about 100+ other ultralight and light rods from 4’6” to 9’.
And I know what has cast the farthest for me .
I’m going to leave it at that .
Found video on this subject online.
https://youtu.be/31saZRQHoBI
Thanks Dave for the video.
I’m a subscriber to his channel and have watched this particular video a couple of times .
His advice is a start .
At the beginning, He’s casting a 1/64 jighead and plastic body , total around 1/32 ounce and getting around 40’ .
When I’m casting, using what I’ve found I’m casting similar lures out to 60-65’ .
In the end of his video , he changes to a 1/16 ounce jig and larger body so he can “ get out there “ . :)
He is right that one of the most important things in casting light lures is line diameter .
I feel I’ve taken my experimenting a bit farther and with my methods my lures are goin a bit farther too .
Well let me ask a dumb question since I really enjoy proving my ignorance. Looking at the micro guide in that picture it is mounted inside of what would be a normal sized stripper guide on an ultra light rod. What is the purpose of that configuration? Why not just mount the micro guide attached directly to the guide foot?
shallow spool , rigid rod , micro line and it will sing a 1/64 a country mile if the caster knows how to cast ...
it aint about the money or the maker of the equipment , its about the specs on the hardware and the operator ....just a quick fyi ......and when you really get to slinging it WAY out there ....
remember this part ,,,,,GEORGE GEORGE < GEORGE of the jungle ....
WATCH OUT for that TREE ! :Rofl:banghead:Rofl
That is a design that reduces line slap and give you more casting distance....in theory. Having owned this very same rod...and others like it...to include 2 custom built rods with that system....it does not give you any appreciable casting distance. It does reduce line slap but that's about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by UpstateSC_Bill
Regards
OK. I understand the notion of reducing line slap in order to improve casting distance. Whether it works or not is open to question I guess. But it is the micro guide mounted inside of a seemingly normal sized stripper guide. I don't see how that way of designing the guide accomplishes anything. Why not just mount the micro guide directly to the guide foot? It would seem to accomplish the same thing without the added weight of the outside ring. I hope I am explaining myself clearly. Old guy here who is admittedly not up to date on the latest designs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alphahawk
The outer ring helps control the line. Watch the video on this page and see how it helps sort of funnel the line into the smaller guide.
MicroWave Guide System
Quote:
Originally Posted by UpstateSC_Bill
Not a designer of rods and I cannot answer that question. But it is not new...this system has been around for about 20 years, if not more.
Regards
OK. It makes a little more sense in that video. In the picture of the rod above it appears that the outer ring is more towards the tip side of the rod. The rod looks slightly larger in diameter on the microguide side so I assumed that was the butt side. I guess I was misinterpreting the picture. If they've been around for twenty years I honestly haven't encountered one. But then I haven't bought a new rod in about fifteen of those years. Never had trouble casting as far as I needed to with my three ultra light rods, two St. Croix and a Fenwick.Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperDave336
Don't get confused between the microwave guide system and the micro guides found on JDM rods.
Most if not all of my JDM rods have very small guides towards the tip to minimize line slap. Even the JDM rod's tip is very small in diameter compared to a standard rod's tip. My Yamaga Blanks TZ 71/Nano is rated for very light jigs down to 0.3g and has Torzite guides. Although Torzite guides are slightly larger in diameter than comparable SIC guides they are still very small diameter. Torzite guides have less friction and are about 40% lighter than SIC guides. Sensitivity and casting is improved using Torzite guides. My YB TZ 71 will outcast my Okuma Pro Guide 8ft rod with light tungsten jig streamers and is much more sensitive. I can feel a trout inhale a jigged tungsten nymph 20-30yds away, it's that good.
And again, line diameter greatly affects casting distance.
The only con using microwave and micro guides I can think of is cold icey conditions. Smaller guides freeze up easier and much quicker.
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Thanks for the info. My confusion was mainly caused by my misinterpretation of the relative position of the larger outer ring relative to the inner micro ring. It was more of a how does that work question. I see what is going on now. I know that guide design and materials and construction have evolved somewhat since I last bought a rod.
Micro guides on the upper third of a rod are good IMO as long as the lower guides are of ample diameter to allows coils of line to gradually straighten out .
I tend to agree with you. It is that stripper guide with double rings that I am skeptical about. I also tend to agree with previous statements that the line is a big factor in casting distance, maybe the biggest.Quote:
Originally Posted by gillchaser999
If the Micro guides ( the double guides with the small diameter center) worked , why wouldn’t a tall small diameter guide work and cut out the extra weight of the outer ring ?Quote:
Originally Posted by UpstateSC_Bill
I’ve seen UL rods with small diameter tall stripper guides , even own a few .
With everything else being equal, they don’t cast as far as the ones with a larger ring stripper.
According to the video that larger outer ring is supposed to funnel the line down into the smaller ring. But to my way of thinking funneling the line down in such a short distance should cause more friction/drag. It would seem that keeping a larger, standard stripper and letting that feed into micro guides more towards the tip would work better. But that is just speculation on my part since I don't have a rod with such a dual ring guide.Quote:
Originally Posted by gillchaser999
Bill, I have both. My TSS rod has the microwave guides and will pitch a rooster tail like a rocket. Very effective. It’s a 6’6” light action so to compare it to an ultra light rod is apples and oranges. I also have a browning airstream rod with very large stripper guide and it also casts a long way but I don’t think it’s better than the TSS, it’s also a 6’6” but an ul action. I looked at them with a skeptical eye in the beginning but I wouldn’t turn my back on a rod with microwave guides. I have nothing negative to say about the microwave guides. They also allow a little more weight off the tip area by allowing smaller running guides but not very much.
A jighead update that pertains to casting distance.
I had been experimenting with streamer hooks with tungsten bead heads epoxied to the hooks .
This morning, I switched back to 1/64 Trout Magnet jig heads . And I gained from 10-15’ with every rod I tried this morning.
I’ll still use the streamer hook jigs when I want a jig with a smaller hook as when using a Bobby Garland Itty Bit Swim’r .
For apples to apples we need to know the weight of your tungsten beaded hooks. Tungsten beads come in many different sizes and weights.Quote:
Originally Posted by gillchaser999
I use both slotted and cyclops tungsten beads, weights can vary slightly between brands due to tungsten content. A reloading scale is used to weigh my tungsten streamers and I use mostly 4.6mm and 5.5mm tungsten beads for streamers. Beaded nymphs are tied much smaller down to 2.8mm slotted tungsten beads.
This might help, weights will vary slightly among brands:
5.5mm tungsten bead slotted = 21 grains
4.6mm tungsten bead slotted = 11 grains
4.0mm tungsten bead slotted = 7.4 grains
1/16oz = 27.3 grains
1/32oz = 13.7 grains
1/64oz = 6.8 grains
1 gram = 15.4 grains.
For visual this little #10 hook sculpin jig tied with a 4.6mm slotted tungsten bead and .030 lead wrap weighs 20 grains dry. Casts easily with light lined spin gear.
Attachment 463290
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Thanks for the info .Quote:
Originally Posted by MtnFisher
I’ve been gradually going up in diameter of Tungsten beads . The ones I received today are cyclops 4.6mm .
For the OP, you might consider Momoi's Oshikage PE braided line designed for distance. I would pair it with a JDM light game rod 6.9ft to 7.1ft, Fuji Titanium Torzite micro guides and rated for light lures.
Esmashop MOMOI Oshikage 125m https://a.co/d/ertlEaf
Attachment 463313Attachment 463314
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I went on this same journey, searching for the ultimate conventional tackle rod that could cast ultra light weight lures accurately and for distance and ultimately I ended up biting the bullet and getting a fly rod. Conventional tackle just isn't designed for this usage and fly rods are. My foray into fly fishing has been super refreshing and rewarding. Even if you end up with a conventional setup that accomplish what you want I would still get a cheap fly rod to try out. You never know, you may love it.
To add to my previous comments.
One rod isn’t going to do it . At least for me it’s not .
Like today . I took my 6’3” Abu Garcia Mass Beat light Four piece travel rod with a compact 2000s reel for throwing plastics .
When I wanted to cast my micro spinners , out came my 5’6” SC Avid with a 500 size Shimano Soare XR reel . 2# Floroclear on both .
For the really light stuff a fly rod would would be better. With spin gear I'm comfortable throwing most jig streamers down to about 1/40oz and prefer no lighter than 1/32oz. I also fish light egg patterns and nymphs but use split shot crimped to the tag end of my leader knot.Quote:
Originally Posted by firstout
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Just some input. Where I fish there’s so much stuff above and behind and it seems everywhere to grab a fly line. I have two fly rods that gather dust. Not that I don’t like em, I built one of em. My area and fishing is under branches and Spanish moss and so on. I agree that below my favorite weight of 1/43 I have a hard time casting. If you really have to heave the cast, accuracy suffers. Hence, I bow the rod and shoot a lot. It takes practice but once you’re comfortable with it your boat mates will have to know how you’re doing that. I’ve shown it to a few folks and all have adopted it to some extent.
And just fyi, the grain measurements I used in reloading are pretty spot on for accuracy. There’s 7000 grains in a pound and about 435 in an ounce if memory serves. The jig I use most comes from a do it pro mold for 1/32 no collar mbut weighs 1/43 with a #8 hook.I just know it works well for me. Now add wind and current and you have to decide for yourself.
You said it Tim , it’s finding what works for you .
Everybody has their favorite rods , reels , lures , and lines . It’s what fits your style of fishing or what works that’s important.