Braided line…knots, leaders, etc.

I’m sure this is a rehashed topic, but I’ve read several articles about increased usage of braid to fluoro and mono leaders or braid alone in crappie world. I’m particularly interested in braid to fluoro set up on jig with bobber (which I love!) that uses swivel resulting in easier rigging after breaking off because only leader line is broke in most cases. After much practice, I’m decent at double uni knot as I could not get comfy with blood and FG knots. Gonna start with P-Line braid to P-line fluoro (30# to 8# and 20# to 4-6). Anyone do this already? Favorite knots, lines, set ups etc.


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I’ve gone over to heavy hi vis braid on my 12 &14 ft. jig poles (50 lb test) and tying 3-4 foot mono leader.
Im using the Alberto knot. I got it from the best site on the interwebz. Net knots.com
They have knot descriptions, illustrations and animations for each knot.
I went to the heavy line because anything smaller tangles too much on the guides and won’t let me pitch to cover.
The big stuff is great, no memory coils !!
I’m probably the only person doing this ,
But it works for me and my style of fishing.
( note , I typically only use jigs , no bobber )


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I was ising heavy braid to a flouro leader. I made a Surgeons Loop with the braid. The flouro was a King Sling Loop knot. Then I joined the two by making the braid into a Cats Paw, leaving the flouro alone. This captured the flouro and left it undisturbed and free to move within the braid. Very strong and easy to do. Easy to switch out leaders as well.

Then I went back to mono straight through. :) is

I've been using 20# braid for many years with a fast snap (like bass fisherman use) tied to the end. I make up leaders with a swivel on the top so it's quick to change baits (especially in cold weather). I store the leaders on a Tackle Buddy; tangle free storage as well as swivels, jigs, etc. Not only is braid durable it doesn't stretch so it's very sensitive.

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Over here a lot of folks use straight braid saying Crappie are not line sensitive. I believe they are correct 95% of the time, when Crappie are actively feeding. I'm a multi species fisherman and believe all species are somewhat line sensitive. Some more than others. I like braid on my baitcasters with a flouro or mono leader. I always have an ul spinning reel with 4lb hi vis Vicious and another with low vis line in the boat. Just depends on what I'm fishing for and whether they are active or not.

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I use the Alberto knot, on casting rigs use 8# Nanofil or Powerpro 8-1, in white as I can see better, have less knot failure using mono rather than fluro, 6 ft or less not much mono to stretch so still sensitive. Will have to try Grenline's system on my longer jig poles, have tried 8-10 braid ok new, but after a few trips it gets wrapped near the tip, the heavier braid sounds like the ticket, Thanks @GreenLine

Why the Leader? Why not just use mono, Braid or flouro....
Don't like leaders... confidence in your equipment..
Not the equipment how you use it...

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by jackie53

Why the Leader? Why not just use mono, Braid or flouro....
Don't like leaders... confidence in your equipment..
Not the equipment how you use it...

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The appeal of using a leader to me is I fish some gnarly stuff and breaking off leader line with jig is less hassle and time consuming than doing total redo. Direct braid is too tough and most water is fish is pretty clear.


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Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jackie53

Why the Leader? Why not just use mono, Braid or flouro....
Don't like leaders... confidence in your equipment..
Not the equipment how you use it...

Sent from my U705AA using Crappie.com Fishing mobile app

---

Braid gives me the most sensitivity , no stretch, and a big advantage of no memory.
I’ve gone to 50 lb braid to reduce tangles.
I need the mono leader so I can break off when I can’t get it un hung and so the fish can’t see the line.
I agree it can be a pain to re tie but it’s minimal.
You watch, it will be common in a few years.


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There is an issue to consider in all of this and that is that knots can be great with one type of material and not another, or one size and not another. Testing will offer you some insights but bear in mind that it is very important that a connection be durable. I mean sure you can retie often and avoid a mystery separation, but if the knot is time consuming or tricky to fiddle up then the reties might not come as often as needed. :)

Many great knots out there for a man to choose. Being able to properly form up and cinch down the knot will make any knot better than one a man struggles with, or is intimidated by. We all develop favorites due to this fact. So asking which knot is much like asking which ones can you actually tie successfully. Any choice should be one that you can master. People get all caught up in the chase for a 100% knot, but really can there truly be such a bird ? I mean as soon as you diverge from straight line to any sort of wrap, twist, or other distortion, the line must be weaker.

Truth is that most all of our knots are more than game enough to be efficient on crappie. You can get along with just about any connection you can adequately form up and cinch down properly. Durability then becomes the primary concern.

With braid I like to use the Surgeon’s Loop. This knot is very durable as once cinched it will not over constrict upon itself. Braid is a different material than mono and knots thus behave differently as well. Pull stress a mono knot and it will relax. Pull stress a braid knot and it will cinch tighter, but never relax. Next stress a little tighter, a little tighter and then the knot has become fatigued. Once weakened it is not obvious and you experience that worse of all experiences.

The Surgeons Loop can be made using more than just two passes. I like five as I feel the slickness of the material warrants more than two trips round. This produces a permanent end connection. From there you could choose most any sort of connective knot. The OP says he wants the leader to break away and leave him with something he can still repair quickly. Ding Ding.

I mentioned using a loop for the leader and joining them in a Cats Paw. This is super quick and easy to do. Done one way the leader forms the Cats Paw, and this is a mistake. Done the other way the braid forms the Cats Paw and this is correct. You can grasp the leader material beside this connection and pull and have it slide to one side or the other. This means that the leader material is not being damaged in any way, just riding in a sleeve of braid. The two wraps of braid will be easier on the leader than just one.

Extra leaders can be made up in advance and stored pretty easily. Cut the leader’s lop and pull and they will separate leaving the braid loop ready to go again.

I was a surf fisherman for a few decades and had to attach shock leaders. These meant knotted connections needed to be made between main line and shock leader. These connections needed to flow through the guides smoothly and without me noticing. I tried every connection mentioned and solved the riddle myself using a loop to loop connection. However that was with much heavier materials than the OP would ever use for crappie.

Another consideration is how tag ends extend away from the knot. Obviously the OP would want his leader tag end to point towards the jig so as to lessen snags. Not all connections will do this and it may not be a huge issue for them after all.

If snagging jigs is a huge issue here and he snags up a lot, I would be very tempted to use a weaker terminal knot. One that would be weaker than the connecting knot. This would require testing, but would be the best choice. IMO.

Recommending a knot is much like recommending a rod. Until you see the man fish it is hard to know what might be best for him. I went from mono to braid and right back to mono because the braid would wrap around the tip of my 16 foot rods. Twirling the rod to unwrap worked occasionally but mostly I had to lay hands on the wrap to undo it and that was a hassle. Straight through mono is soooooooooo much easier on me. It will wrap, but no where near like braid. I troll so casting is not something that concerns me. So recommending lines depends on how the line will be used, and what sort of rod and reel are being used.

I test all my knots when I first start using a new to me line. Some materials will knot well some not so well and require a different approach. There are a few knots that can work with braid, mono or flouro, such as the UNI or Palomar. However, many knots should be limited to specific materials.

In conclusion, just about any connection the OP chooses will probably be more than sufficient for his purpose. If he experiences failures they will most likely be attributed to selecting a knot that is challenging to him. I can tie many knots very well but a few stump me and perform poorly during testing. Everyone loves them but I can’t tie them worth spit.

I would like to mention spitting on knots. They say it is to avoid the line burning and becoming weak. I doubt that. What it does do is allows you to cinch the knot more deeply than it would if dry. This can be a two edged sword as over constricting can weaken certain knots. We soak our knots in lake water, but that is not the same as we do when the knot is in hand. On the end of the rod there is not as much force being applied. So be gentle with your knots. Be considerate. Do not go mad tightening them down thinking you have to do that. Examining the knot under magnification can reveal when more tension is really required and when you are simply over stressing the thing.

Currently I am using mono straight through to a UNI knot which then gets pulled back to reveal a small loop. I doubt any fish is going to break my knot. I might botch the fight and break the line somewhere above the knot, but the knot itself will not be an issue for me.

I spooled up a reel with some K-9 braid and used it on a few trips. It does seem as though the braid shows up better on live scope. However, I think the braid gets line twist worse than mono.

[QUOTE=Micanopy;4229126]There is an issue to consider in all of this and that is that knots can be great with one type of material and not another, or one size and not another. Testing will offer you some insights but bear in mind that it is very important that a connection be durable. I mean sure you can retie often and avoid a mystery separation, but if the knot is time consuming or tricky to fiddle up then the reties might not come as often as needed. :)

Many great knots out there for a man to choose. Being able to properly form up and cinch down the knot will make any knot better than one a man struggles with, or is intimidated by. We all develop favorites due to this fact. So asking which knot is much like asking which ones can you actually tie successfully. Any choice should be one that you can master. People get all caught up in the chase for a 100% knot, but really can there truly be such a bird ? I mean as soon as you diverge from straight line to any sort of wrap, twist, or other distortion, the line must be weaker.

Truth is that most all of our knots are more than game enough to be efficient on crappie. You can get along with just about any connection you can adequately form up and cinch down properly. Durability then becomes the primary concern.

With braid I like to use the Surgeon’s Loop. This knot is very durable as once cinched it will not over constrict upon itself. Braid is a different material than mono and knots thus behave differently as well. Pull stress a mono knot and it will relax. Pull stress a braid knot and it will cinch tighter, but never relax. Next stress a little tighter, a little tighter and then the knot has become fatigued. Once weakened it is not obvious and you experience that worse of all experiences.

The Surgeons Loop can be made using more than just two passes. I like five as I feel the slickness of the material warrants more than two trips round. This produces a permanent end connection. From there you could choose most any sort of connective knot. The OP says he wants the leader to break away and leave him with something he can still repair quickly. Ding Ding.

I mentioned using a loop for the leader and joining them in a Cats Paw. This is super quick and easy to do. Done one way the leader forms the Cats Paw, and this is a mistake. Done the other way the braid forms the Cats Paw and this is correct. You can grasp the leader material beside this connection and pull and have it slide to one side or the other. This means that the leader material is not being damaged in any way, just riding in a sleeve of braid. The two wraps of braid will be easier on the leader than just one.

Extra leaders can be made up in advance and stored pretty easily. Cut the leader’s lop and pull and they will separate leaving the braid loop ready to go again.

I was a surf fisherman for a few decades and had to attach shock leaders. These meant knotted connections needed to be made between main line and shock leader. These connections needed to flow through the guides smoothly and without me noticing. I tried every connection mentioned and solved the riddle myself using a loop to loop connection. However that was with much heavier materials than the OP would ever use for crappie.

Another consideration is how tag ends extend away from the knot. Obviously the OP would want his leader tag end to point towards the jig so as to lessen snags. Not all connections will do this and it may not be a huge issue for them after all.

If snagging jigs is a huge issue here and he snags up a lot, I would be very tempted to use a weaker terminal knot. One that would be weaker than the connecting knot. This would require testing, but would be the best choice. IMO.

Recommending a knot is much like recommending a rod. Until you see the man fish it is hard to know what might be best for him. I went from mono to braid and right back to mono because the braid would wrap around the tip of my 16 foot rods. Twirling the rod to unwrap worked occasionally but mostly I had to lay hands on the wrap to undo it and that was a hassle. Straight through mono is soooooooooo much easier on me. It will wrap, but no where near like braid. I troll so casting is not something that concerns me. So recommending lines depends on how the line will be used, and what sort of rod and reel are being used.

I test all my knots when I first start using a new to me line. Some materials will knot well some not so well and require a different approach. There are a few knots that can work with braid, mono or flouro, such as the UNI or Palomar. However, many knots should be limited to specific materials.

In conclusion, just about any connection the OP chooses will probably be more than sufficient for his purpose. If he experiences failures they will most likely be attributed to selecting a knot that is challenging to him. I can tie many knots very well but a few stump me and perform poorly during testing. Everyone loves them but I can’t tie them worth spit.

I would like to mention spitting on knots. They say it is to avoid the line burning and becoming weak. I doubt that. What it does do is allows you to cinch the knot more deeply than it would if dry. This can be a two edged sword as over constricting can weaken certain knots. We soak our knots in lake water, but that is not the same as we do when the knot is in hand. On the end of the rod there is not as much force being applied. So be gentle with your knots. Be considerate. Do not go mad tightening them down thinking you have to do that. Examining the knot under magnification can reveal when more tension is really required and when you are simply over stressing the thing.

Currently I am using mono straight through to a UNI knot which then gets pulled back to reveal a small loop. I doubt any fish is going to break my knot. I might botch the fight and break the line somewhere above the knot, but the knot itself will not be an issue for me.[/QUOTE

Very well written. I used the surgeon until I learned to tie the Alberto EFFICENTLY! for me has equal strength and a smaller profile to pass through guides, in the early stages I would tie rigs at home with Alberto but use the surgeon on the water. I experienced failures when going braid to fluro likely due to my poor knot skills, the mono is much more forgiving, and a short piece does not hurt my sensitivity much. As Micanopy explains the best knot for him or me may not be best for you. Learn to tie a knot efficiently, usually best done at home with larger line, use the knot that works best for you. Great discussion, Thanks All.