https://youtu.be/68o9hvCvjcE
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Agree about some things in the video (thank for sharing BTW) but my research after 40 years of using lures disagrees a bit.
I have posted hundreds of photos of fish on crappie.com and the lures that caught them. The reasons that fish struck are open for discussion, but regardless of species, once fish are hooked, that's proof enough that various combinations of lure size, vibration, action, shape/design and color all contribute once fish are found.
I use soft plastics as examples though I have caught 1000's of fish on most lure types and lure size ever made. Even ice fishing I've done fine using no live bait on my ice fishing lures or at any other time during the year. When the bite is really tough, what you mentioned may make a difference for stationary lures, but for slow moving lures, not so much IMO.
BTW, your work table looks about as organized as my own.:ThumbsUp
Thanks for posting the video. Very well made and helps with understanding lures. Every fisherman/ fisherwoman will have their preferred lure and how to fish them. Some folks like me are always looking for a better understanding of the elusive creatures and will try almost anything to be better at it. So, from the tried and true of the older experts to the newest ideas we always appreciate anyone that helps and shares their knowledge and understanding. But as my Granddad told me, "You gotta hold your mouth right!"
What makes fish bite (IMHO) : hunger / anger / territorial protection :twocents
That may be, but how do you chose lures based on that? Assigning reasons/motives or emotions fish strike lures, assumes fish reason - and thereby are capable of logic or that fish get angry and are thereby emotional as seen in animals with larger and more complex brains.Quote:
Originally Posted by CrappiePappy
Beyond assigning the above reasons or labels for attacks on lures in particular comes the nitty gritty of what exactly was it about the lure - by way of description - when fish struck it at that moment or hour in that place. Again, experienced anglers realize the significance of a lure's size, shape, action and color - combined, that possibly helped to initiate strikes.
A more detailed description includes a specific lure action - inherent or angler imparted; color brightness or transparency; shape such as slim, round or flat; weight - either the lure's or the weight of a sinker or jig; lure speed and the type of retrieve chosen for that lure.
For example, a lure I would never believe capable of catching panfish would be one that was too heavy, too large, that had the wrong action no matter the retrieve or any lure worked too fast. Lure details take precedence over any generalities one may assign as to why fish strike certain lures but weren't provoked to strike others.
BTW, let's not forget line diameter and type.
Sure takes the guesswork out.
Fish do not have hands to grasp. They have a mouth and that is their only way of interacting with other creatures. Fish take things into their mouthes that are both food and non food, and learn to spit at an early age. They take items in, test them for edibility and either eject or swallow as standard operating procedure. Fish take their babies into their mouthes to protect them from being eaten by other fish. They use their mouthes to fight for territory and mates. They use their mouthes to construct nests capable of attracting a mate. Their mouth is kind of it.
So they might bite to eat, but it could also be in reaction to a threat, or could be out of simple curiosity. Some specie will school up and usually when in a group will act similarly to the others. Either feeding, or moving over distance, or sleeping, etc all in unison. This group behavior leads to a competitive atmosphere where when several fish spot a prey item each dashes in as quickly as possible to capture it, knowing if it tastes bad they can just eject it, but if their buddy gets it they miss out.
Crappie are a schooling fish, but can operate in an independent fashion. Fickle devils in that they can see something that appears to be edible prey item and take a pass. They are watchers, and ease in for the kill. Carefully moving so as not to disturb the prey until it is too late. Death from the murky depths.
So our lure comes swimming by and they see it and from their they have to make a decision. Does it look edible ? Do I have to quick grab this before Little Johnny Fish Pants gets a chance ? Is this thing trying to hurt me ? Am I really hungry or am I just in the mood for a little snack ? Am I in position to actually capture the item ?
Then there are the instinctual behaviors such as putting on weight in anticipation for the spawn. This is like a festival where they feed wildly. Then there are all the environmental influences, such as cold fronts, Moon phases, structure, water temperatures, water levels clarity and currents, lighting effects, prey items available, etc. These too will determine the willingness of a crappie to bite our lures.
I have noticed how similar their behavior is, even from opposite sides of a large lake. Seven miles away, the fish are either biting or not. I can quickly drive over to the other end and experience the exact same result. Like a large gong has been rung announcing when to start and when to stop, and fish scattered wide and far all comply. When it is on it is on and when it is off it is off.
Then we have patterns such as the crappie in this lake like blue and pink and in another they like red and white. This lake they bite Road Runners and in this one they refuse them. The old men I speak with all have categorized lures according to the lake they are fishing. We assume it is water clarity, or perhaps a hatch we get to match, but it could be something else entirely. I have been struggling to find universals and they just don’t seem to be found.
The solution can be easily deduced if you take the square root of stupid and divide by fickle. It is why we say the phrase- it’s fishing. No computer can select the proper bait to be used at a certain time to catch large fish, or numerous fish. We develop skill sets that allow us to advantage them with regards to some aspect of their very complicated lives. If we loaded the boat every time we went we would soon tire of them. We like to best our competitors and crow about our abilities, and really like it when they other guys starts crying. I like to show my fish to my wife- lookie here baby, this is why I need all that tackle.
My guess is that fish are so dumb that our application of logic and reason cannot stoop low enough to be of any significant value. I have met some really dumb fellers that could get close, but usually humans are no match, and are left to ponder the question- why ?
Poetic, but how do you chose & use lures based on all that?
Can one lure in one color work 100% of the time when fish are found biting? (ahhh - yes, for sure)
The question was a philosophical one, and I shared some insights.
My limited experience has shown me that any choice I make is simply a guess. Not even sure the choice much matters once I have found aggressive fish. Yesterday hundreds and hundreds of fish saw my trolled display and for some reason chose to simply let all ten jigs just go by. Save for one really dumb one.
For every fish that bites, there were many others that had already chose not to bite. We kid ourselves when we think that a lure that appeals to one fish appeals to all the fish. I mean just because I caught a fish on this lure, does not mean that all the other fish will also want it. Crap shoot. Catch two fish on that lure and we are getting closer. Catch five fish and we have a pattern. Catch five fish every time we go and we got a confidence lure. Fish with our confidence lure and don’t catch anything at all, and we choose to decide the fish just aren’t biting today.
I might choose a lure with a chartreuse tail and set out several of that fashion. However all I am really doing is hoping fish will see it and decide to attack. If they refuse it is generally accepted practice to swap out for another color. Maybe that will work and maybe it will not. Maybe I need to change something else instead. Now begins the process of me choosing, guessing really, as to what will make a fish bite. Find it and I am the hero, not find it and I say the fish just aren’t biting today. Could be myriad reasons why.
Could be the fish are simply tired of eating shad and are focussing on grass shrimp because there was a huge hatching or some such activity going on, only I am completely unawares. I just explain my failure with the old- they aren’t biting excuse- but in fact they are actively and aggressively feeding. I can sit in my boat and go through a complicated selection process, allow that chartreuse lure to beguile me all over again, and catch squat diddly.
So lure selection is really a guessing game we play, until we are able to develop a small selection of confidence lures. Dialing them in. What makes the fish strike those lures and avoid the others is a mystery. Nimrod can fill the boat using his confidence pure, but it doesn’t perform the same from my boat. I can’t dangle it with equal efficiency and grace.
So what makes a fish bite a lure……who really knows. Complicated beyond my ability to reason anything more than an educated guess. Too many factors in play. Basically though we assume it is because that fish saw that lure as food or a threat. The only two reasons why he would choose to engulf it.
Basically though we assume it is because that fish saw that lure as food or a threat
Of course you know what they say about that those that ass-u-me.nonono
The only reason I swap lures is for variety - not because fish stopped biting them for whatever reason/excuse one may give. The only guesses I make are in regard to possible fish holding areas in a water. In order to up the odds of finding fish - starting with baitfish locations - is to know waters fished over time. This involves discovering a multitude of facts about a lake or pond that may differ widely from one another. It includes:
knowing everything about the bottom in all parts of the lake such as depths in feet (shallows vs deep areas), flats, humps, points, steep shorelines, bottom composition, weed areas, inflow streams/ old channels, old rock walls, stumps, etc. The only way to do this is with sonar and traveling to various parts of the lake or pond, constantly making mental notes of what is found.
seasonality - fish locate in different areas depending on the season and avoid the same areas for the same reason.No guess work when it comes to choosing the right lures, used the right way - trolling generally being least productive. The areas those lures are cast are as important as the lures chosen which goes back to - knowing thy water especially when a water is a mile or more in any direction.
Having confidence in any lure simply means fish were caught on it and nothing more; losing confidence in a lure is just as uninformative. If a lure statistically proves itself - even during only one outing - the lure is now a classic in one's tackle box meaning the odds are very high it can and will catch fish when taking into consideration various fish locations.
Lure color is the least significant factor when choosing lures and I've proven many times that clear soft plastic does as well as opaque colors of any brightness. Color brightness along with flash is something I consider importanct when I want the lure to stand out and to emphasize a lures action as a whole or just the tail.
The whole point of using lures is discovering what each is capable of when it is used in one or different ways and in different situations. Statistics speak loudest when assessing the value of a lure. In fact results over time do not and can not disprove the value of a lure that has proven itself year after year by consistently catching fish and in different waters no less.
As to what fish are supposedly feeding on at the time, lure choices never need take that into consideration. Higher activity equates to more sensitivity to moving objects, whether alive or appearing so - even regarding the unnatural way lures are prone to moving.
Find fish/catch fish may seem simplistic but when all the above are taken into consideration, it doesn't take a genius to catch fish while at the same time excluding all of the noise/claims why and what fish strike.
My wife and I just like to go fishin when we can and when the weather and our age allows. We fish from bank and my we have some good times and some bad days as well.
I am on C.C.Com every day and I love all the information on baits and styles that I read about, maybe I live vicariously through all of you and I thank you for that.
In my mind I want all of the baits I read about but my wallet always says whoa!When I was younger I spent way too much and as I'm older I likely spend to little but you know what? We have fun!
My wife always is catching more than I while fishing the same way(she fishes 2 poles and I just 1).
I can't consume and retain all the info I read on here but my goodness I do enjoy it.
Differing opinions are always great but at the end of the day always appreciate the connection we have here and walk away as friends.
Alan
Didn't mean to stir a rat's nest. I just wanted to share a couple things I had learned in the past year. (I've been fishing for forty+ years myself.) Different people have different experiences, schools of thought, training and education thus will yield different results. For instance I do not fish for crappie at all. I'm primarily a catfisherman, so for me to be using any kind of artificial is almost unheard of in catfish circles. Thus the need for a public open forums to talk about these things. Which I must say I contribute to less and less these days because people seem to get up in arms over the simplest things.
The video you shared about lure characteristics and their importance is the whole point of the above discussion and agrees in part with what I have been trying to say for as long as I've been posting on fishing forums. Long ago I only fished for bass in bass tournaments, but the experience taught me a lot about lures watching others catch fish on different ones as well as on many different waters. Once I started making my own lures (like you), another world opened up about discovering what fish strike and why based on lure components and the unique characteristics of each. The search is ongoing and fruitful to say the least.
Sorry if I rattled your chain....
Understood.
Actually Spoony .... I believe "why" they bite is mostly hunger & territorial protection. I just added "anger" as an explanation that YOU are always touting when you say you "aggravate" them into biting. :RoflQuote:
Originally Posted by Spoonminnow
We already know that a Crappie doesn't have a complex brain, and survives by instinct. That instinct tells them to eat it, fight it, or flee from it .... and the mass majority of the time it's eat it or flee from it. (which Livescope has shown me, time & time again) :twocents
Pappy, agreed. Ain't no body gonna tell me a gar ain't ornery.Devil Icon
And I fish without sonar, so I have to rely on more "attracting" elements of lures in general.
Mabe irritated would have been a better word such as the irritation you experience when mosquitoes constantly buzz around your face causing you to you swat at them.
Regardless, is your lure choice ever based on hunger or what fish are (supposedly) feeding on? How would you know, especially when the fish you just landed has a full belly and a minnow still sticking out of its gullet? Gluttony perhaps?
In my book, territorialism is just another form of irritation in the world of fish when the feeding impulse is not present. Hey, I just thought of a descriptive word for all strikes: impulsive. It's even better than irritation or anger (a word I don't remember using in past posts), without out being specific regarding the reaon fish strike such as hunger or territorial response.
But another type of strike not mentioned is related to mob violence - IOW - where after one fish strikes, a feeding frenzy is started, leading to one fish after another being caught, regardless the number fish in a panic seen caught by their nearby buddies. Unless I knew for certain that a baitfish school was near the school of striking fish, I couldn't say for sure those fish struck to eat - especially only a single, solitary lure. I would rather label it stike-frenzy comparitive to a riot started by one individual, which then becomes contagious. In this case you could close your eyes picking out different lures and pretty much all would be struck. (i.e. fish bit this minnow shaped lure, but then struck a claw shaped plastic and then a fly and then a Crappie Magnet, etc. Guess prey-type targeting wasn't relevant.)
Since there is a limited time to edit a post, I'm rewriting it because it drives me crazy seeing the errors!! Too bad grammerly doesn't work on c.com.
(Please delete the duplicate.)
Mabe irritated would have been a better word such as the irritation you experience when a bee suddenly comes out of nowhere near your face causing you to swat at it. Regardless, is your lure choice ever based on fish hunger or what fish are (supposedly) feeding on at that moment? How would you know if a fish was hungry, especially when the fish you just landed has a full belly and a minnow still sticking out of its gullet? (Gluttony perhaps? lol)
In my book, territorialism is just another possible cause of fish irritability also present when the impulse to eat something presents itself. Hey, I just thought of a descriptive adjective for all strikes in general: impulsive. It avoids assigning reasons such as hunger, irritation or anger (a word I don't remember using in past posts).
But another type of strike not mentioned is related to mob violence - IOW a (feeding?) frenzy that involves other fish in the school. (I guess the number of fish hooked, fighting for their lives as seen by their buddies, doesn't seem to matter. So much for fish IQ.) But unless I knew for certain that a baitfish school was near the school of striking fish, I can't say for sure those fish struck to eat - especially that one single, solitary lure I'm catching fish on one after another. A more accurate phrase in my book is strike-frenzy, comparable to a riot started by one individual that became contagious to others in the crowd. In this situation you could close your eyes, pick out one of a variety of lures and know it would be hammered regardless of whether the lure resembled a prey animal or not. Interesting though is when the strikes stop all at once. I would think some fish never got the opportunity to [fill in the word of choice].
I have definitely noticed the feeding frenzy-type strike.
Funbun, first let me congratulate you for sharing your thought in a well made articulate video. Many of you points are illustrated in the following lure /fish caught photos.
Note:
I started making hybrid plastics a few years ago after I got tired of pouring plastic into molds and coming up with the same size and shape day after day. Considering the bags and bags of soft plastic lure accumulated over many decades, I figured why not come up with new shapes and size as well a modify lures already owned? I hold each end of the two parts to be connected using a candle, hold together for 4 seconds and that's it. Here are a few:
3 lb. white sucker and yellow perch caught on a modified Crappie Magnet grub:
https://i.imgur.com/3qiDkyx.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/OIo6iEw.jpg
curl tail added to a segment of a Fr. Fry stick:
https://i.imgur.com/mFBjOa3.jpg?1https://i.imgur.com/Vw6pMlu.jpg?2https://i.imgur.com/gOKJn9Z.jpg
clear taper tail added to a grub body:
https://i.imgur.com/Fwt77Vm.jpg?1https://i.imgur.com/UKnAs6t.jpg?1
fin tail added to a segment of different bodies:
https://i.imgur.com/gG79Ldv.jpg?1https://i.imgur.com/rE9X0pm.jpg?1
claw added to segment of stick:
https://i.imgur.com/zWKGuYC.jpg?1https://i.imgur.com/rrSjXmw.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/FkhkMjO.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/v0ffxkd.jpg?1
Joker grub tail added to a different body"
https://i.imgur.com/j6OPUO9.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/ZAse2JO.jpg?1https://i.imgur.com/BaITEDU.jpg?1https://i.imgur.com/zSRunrx.png?1
Two grub bodies (minus tails) attached together"
https://i.imgur.com/Uq17S1l.jpg?1https://i.imgur.com/9zvC6mZ.jpg?1https://i.imgur.com/HZYaNJG.jpg
As you can see, size/shape/action accounted for ALL fish caught, color secondary but important since we all like to think certain colors contributed to the almighty TRIGGER. (so glad you included that word in your video!)
I am going to continue with another reply that is an example of an ultra trigger that guarantees super high fish irritabiity: dense schools of mixed species in early spring in shallow wetland water. IMO, minus irritability, fish have no reason to strike an unnatural moving object. Here goes:
I'm sure many of you have had banner days when right place/right time allowed some record catches.
In the northeast we had a record amount of rain in a short time that raised water levels like crazy in all lakes and rivers. In the lake I fished yesterday, the lake was up almost three feet affecting the spawn of yellow perch - one of the first fish to spawn in spring. Where perch spawn, most fish follow to eat their eggs. I'm talking about four to five other fish species that follow in dense, mixed-species schools into water no more than 3'. I'm talk'n crappie with perch and sunfish; white perch with crappie, yellow perch with crappy and a few bass in the same school.
Granted, a child could catch fish-after-fish in that scenario, but one thing it allowed me to do is to discover and rediscover more things about lures - particularly about soft plastics on light ball head jigs. When fishing a wetlands shallow water pattern, it pays to work lures slowly, mid-depth. To do that 1/32, 1/64 and 1/24 oz jigs are a must along with hook sizes to match. A lure can be 3" on a 1/32 oz jig but the hook size/gap must be at least a #2 hook, like this example of a 5" plastic worm that caught all kinds of fish yesterday - many on the same lures:
perch, sunfish and bass caught on a 4" plastic worm:
https://i.imgur.com/LwYhGB2.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/D9SbiG1.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/WqNRFXb.jpg
Don't get me wrong, the light jig small soft plastic/shallow water wetland pattern doesn't mean any of this doesn't catch fish most times of year and in deeper water. Like my previous post about lure design, shape, action and retrieve make all the difference.
Float fishing isn't my forte and especially not in 3' of water, but when you find dense schools of very irritable fish, anything is possible. A buddy wanted me to order some 1.5" foam cigar floats and when I got them, I borrowed one. Man did it open doors as far as ultra-slow fishing using a rod pull & pause presentation!! Cool was seeing crappie attack the float once it plopped down, at times jumping out of the water! Many lures worked under the float and one that excelled over all others was the Mojo grub in - clear plastic:
https://i.imgur.com/sg9O4Ii.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/vEAUILT.jpg
I've poured clear plastic shapes before, but the clear plastic Mojo even in murky water does as well as any color! the thin straight tail that flutters with the least motion imparted.
Thin tail of the Mojo added to a French Fry segment and the 1.5" cigar float:
https://i.imgur.com/jWVYXv5.jpg
Another find was the Chubby Grub fashioned from cutting off 2" off the front of a worm (shown above) with the end blunted with a lighter:
https://i.imgur.com/UcvwixU.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/nYnUFl7.jpg
Nothing says, come & eat me like the wagging of a Chubby Grub rigged on a 1/32 oz jig!
A fellow lure-crafter friend gave me some hand-tied soft & fuzzy grubs which I nicknamed: Fuzzy Wuzzies. Caught his 12" crappie casting it:
https://i.imgur.com/ydn6lyv.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/mJmwEdO.jpg
What a great slinky action!
So in conclusion, some terms used by Funbun were - IMO - right on, but most of the replies complicate the reasons fish strike lures. It's not rocket science. Fish are triggered to strike lures for reasons having nothing to do with hunger or ingestion. A painted eye means nothing in the scheme of things, whereas contrast is key against a background - actual hue or color brightness not a factor in of themselves. Heck, my clear-plastic Mojo grubs can outfish any colored lure hands down!! Why?:
1. thin, straight tail that flutter with no angler-induced action.
2. the clear body transmits background color, light reflection and refraction
3. the body is enough of a target fish want to murder as it dances while tresspassing its personal space. (if that aint a form of anger, I don't know what is! As I said, crappie attacked the float!!!! and then attacked the lure(s) used beneath it.)
Important note: all of the lures shown above will catch fish in the same lake on the same day as illustrated by the above - 150 fish caught in over two consecutive days (Tues. and Wed of this week); 40 fish caught on Tues in one area;110 fish caught on Wed. in three locations discovered. Skill had nothing to do with so many fish caught. Hyper activity is caused by hyper irritabiltiy and school fish are just that - super irritable.
Fish senses - sight and vibration/motion detection are supe-sensitive to anything that moves. It's brain is limited to a great degree being able to interpret or relate to anything in nature what its senses detects that is unnatural - lures in particular; and seeing stationary heron feet connected to long legs just before the fish is eaten.
Too bad we don't live closer Funbun. We'd go crazy fishing together discussing why fish struck various lures and coming up with new designs and modifications.
One final note (I promise) - (Thank God! you're thinking), I have a pond in my backyard that has bass, sunfish and perch I stocked. Two doz. sunfish have been trained to come towards me from all directions when they see me standing on a small dock. The reason: little balls of bread I roll and throw to them that I started doing a few years ago. Fish go crazy competing for the bread, slamming into one another at the surface. They even come close just beneath me waiting for those starch tidbits. Kind of reminds me of feeding gold fish in a bowl, sprinkling who-knows-what the fish eat daily with gusto. Lures made with so many different materials, in so many colors qualify as a big question mark as far as fish are concerned. If it is edible, eat it; if it's just annoying - KILL IT!!! - (temper, temper, temper!)
Nice bait
These two sentences in Micanopy's reply crack me up every time I read them! Both used to apply to me once upon a time having spent thousands of dollars searching for that perfect lure or lures that do it all.
:RoflQuote:
The solution can be easily deduced if you take the square root of stupid and divide by fickle.
:RoflQuote:
My guess is that fish are so dumb that our application of logic and reason cannot stoop low enough to be of any significant value.
If I only knew then what I know now:
https://i.imgur.com/mzYfUBP.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/eUaZamr.jpg
...as well as similar no-action-tail shapes.
https://i.imgur.com/ThkMTnS.jpg
It's as simple as cutting off the tail of a curl tail grub and working it with a combination of rod tip twitches and slight reel handle turns. EVERYTHING strikes it!!! Please try it. You will be pleasantly surprised.