What retrieve speeds should I be using for baby shad, curly tail , paddle tail, and beetle spin?
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What retrieve speeds should I be using for baby shad, curly tail , paddle tail, and beetle spin?
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It's easy to reel too fast, so slow down. One turn of the reel handle should take 2-3 seconds. (That's an approximation, so feel free to experiment.)
I would look at the action of each rig, and then judge the minimum speed to impart action for each different jig. Excessive speed can put an obvious unnatural action on the jig. I find myself dropping whatever overboard and reeling in such a way as to refresh my memory about each rig. Then the key is to duplicate whatever you were doing when you caught that first slab.
I noticed when I go to slow for paddle tails and curly tails the tails don’t have any actions.Quote:
Originally Posted by deathb4disco
I use curly tails a ton for flounder fishing
( I am new to freshwater) and iv noticed that the smaller tails (like for crappie (1-3 inches) have far less action I’d you go slow then the larger 5-6 inches tails for saltwater.
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All you need to know is that fish are mentally challenged. Expect the unexpected. I've caught a lot of crappie burning the water with large bass spinner baits.
They have enough action, IMO. I remember Jimmy Houston talking about the Road Runner. He said the mistake most people make is reeling fast enough so that the blade spins. He believed that a slower retrieve was better. The blade didn't have to "spin" to work.Quote:
Originally Posted by castingcole
Jimmy also vertical jigs with Road Runners ... blade flutters more than spins. IMO ... if your RR blade isn't "spinning" (cast/retrieve method) it's no better than a regular jig, because it's not putting off the vibrations & flash that it would with the spinning blade. Will fish still hit it ... absolutely !! Will they hit it more often ... I kinda doubt it, but that's just my opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by deathb4disco
Kinda the same theory on curly & paddle/boot tail plastics. They'll still push water (pressure waves) that the fish can sense, just not as much as they would if the tails are moving as much as they're made to do. AND YET, I've caught quite a few fish on a "carrot shaped" plastic, which has little to no tail movement. Could be the colors, and/or the pressure waves that got the fish's attention, or it could have been something as simple as that bait happened to run thru the strike zone of that particular fish while the plastics with more tail action were outside of any other fish's strike zone at that time. :dono
JH thought the "flutter" put off enough flash to attract fish. I rarely fish a blade, so I'm agnostic on the subject.Quote:
Originally Posted by CrappiePappy
One thing I haven't seen mentioned is what I believe is the most important -- whatever speed keeps the bait at the target depth. Obviously the jughead weight can offset this, but spinners especially can rise up in the water column if you retrieve too fast. It's more important to put a bait in the fish's face than it is to have action when the bait is in the wrong place.
Thats what I thinkQuote:
Originally Posted by deathb4disco
Great minds think alike. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by "G"
Yeah, the "flutter" would put off some flash & even a small amount of pressure wave vibration ... but, the few videos I've seen of him vertical jigging a RR, he was doing it in murky/muddy water conditions. He also, of course, used RR's because they're one of his sponsors ... so, he didn't compare the RR's against a regular hair/feather & bladeless jig to see (show) that the RR's blade made a difference. Not that I would have expected him to, or that even if he did it would have shown the RR vs a regular jig as a tie or the RR losing out. (one does not keep paying sponsors very long when they show them to be equal or inferior to other commercially made products) nonono
And I'm a big fan of Road Runners, so don't get me wrong. They've put a LOT of fish in my boat over the decades of me using them. :ThumbsUp
speed can make or break you on crappie . and i used to vertical in timber back when all the time with a road runner . slow falling a road runner can be just flat deadly in the summer on timber .
if you cast and want to reel you need to learn to hold your rod tip up high . a low rod tip will make it difficult to attain the slower speeds crappie typically prefer. you will miss a few fish though as it is tough to get a solid hook set this way .
there are exceptions to every rule on crappie though and in the spring you can burn a bait and they will likely still hit it . there is a fine art to getting the speed and presentation right when casting for crappie . AND if you get bit .....replicate what you did when the strike occurred exactly if possible .
more often than not you need to employ a very slim float when casting from the bank for crappie . it will allow you the pauses and depth to be correct along with the slower speed of the presentation that crappie prefer most of the time .
Thank you! The tip thing is really good to know, I am used to using lures for saltwater where uu if need to tip low so thank you so much!Quote:
Originally Posted by Ketchn
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This is where Livescope taught me a lesson. If your goin to target crappie say 14-16’ depth, you can watch the jig (1/8oz w BG Stroll R’s) sink down. By casting 20-25’ out, rate of fall slows deeper it gets. I use mono line. When you start turning reel if you dont go extra slow you bait will start rising. It will amaze you how slow you hav to reel to keep bait in strike zone depth. LV can be a valuable teacher!!
Great tip, thanksQuote:
Originally Posted by KRW
Quote:
Originally Posted by KRW
This is exactly why I fish a sinking polyester line ....low ratio reels that take in about 22 inches per handle turn...and reel extremely slow. Using 1/2 gram and 1 gram jig heads fishing 22 feet deep this setup is killer....making it relatively easy to keep those light jigs down deep using cast and retrieve.
Regards
One thing to consider is rod action and length - especially the last 1/4 of the rod's length. Too firm as in a medium action rod and imparted lure action using the rod tip could be a problem with what you feel at the end of the line as well as strike sensitivity using lighter and smaller lures. Lure speed which is generally on the slow side is matched to allow the best action-per-lure design (shape/size).
What is livescipe?Quote:
Originally Posted by KRW
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Got it. I have an ultra light, fast action 6’ rod with an exposed graphite to feel bites I love it’s sensitivity and has a good hooks with. Thanks for the AdviceQuote:
Originally Posted by Spoonminnow
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You will continue to catch a bunch - and not just panfish. Looking forward to hearing how well you do and on what & how.
Advice: cover different areas. Fish do move and congregate - or not -depending on the season and weather. No point casting to an area that holds no fish. Recently I found that with water getting colder (55 degrees), the bite has been scattered but bigger fish have been biting.
Livescope is a transducer & modem that hooks up to certain Garmin depth finders to give you live action sonar readings "forward/down/behind" the transducer's position. You can actually see the fish move around in real time. Videos are all over the web showing how they work & what they show.Quote:
Originally Posted by castingcole
Like this quick video :
Panoptix LiveScope – The most amazing sonar technology ever. - YouTube
Wow that is super cool! I do not have a boat though. Will have to check that out just to see thought technology is absolutely amazingQuote:
Originally Posted by CrappiePappy
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Thanks for the advice. How long should I try an area before moving? Will absolutely update afterwardsQuote:
Originally Posted by Spoonminnow
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slow, then slower
I've often said that I'll give a spot 15mins max if I'm not catching fish on the first few casts, but in reality I was probably staying there for more like 30mins. But, that was when I was casting to spots known to me (either from visible cover or found by Down Image unit). Now that I have Livescope, I'll stay on a spot as long as I'm catching keepers off it, but move to another spot in short order if not. And I will be searching for new/unknown ones as I move from spot to spot.Quote:
Originally Posted by castingcole
[QUOTE=castingcole;4063682]Thanks for the advice. How long should I try an area before moving? Will absolutely update afterwards
QUOTE]
All waters are different even those of the same average depth. Structure fishing involves KNOWING THE BOTTOM EVERYWHERE and not just depth.In fact there aren't too many waters I have fished for years that I didn't find something new.
Depth tells you the range in feet fish may be at whether shallow, mid depth or on bottom. Seasonal locations involve depth and weeds (weed types, weed edges, how far off bottom they grow, when they start to die seasonally - if at all), etc.)
Seasonal locations generally are good guides. Shallow in spring, deeper after the spawn / structure located the rest of the year except winter when mid lake schooling may occur.
Even if you have sonar and see no fish within its transucer limitation doesn't mean fish aren't present further out. Recently I fished a lake I've fished for 40 years and just found out some new seasonal locations - near shallower bottoms that drop off in the middle of nowhere and in parts of the lake that are uniformly only 7'-8'. Cast all around you using the presentations suggested by the fine replies above, but know the depth and therefore mid depth. If fishing humps and points, know where they begin and end after looking on shore for landmarks that can be used to find them again.
Right now fish in different waters are not all patterned in the same areas. Some are mid depth, some off points and at weed bases for example. In the other lake, fish were caught in the middle of nowhere but generally in the north or south ends - examples of location patterns for this time of year FOR THOSE PARTICULAR WATERS.
I also work areas in ALL directions and if there's no strikes of any kind, like Crappy Crappy I allow the boat to drift 10 yards and repeat. If any extensive area proves dead, I move a much greater distance and search. Again, YOUR LURES ARE YOUR FISH FINDERS and prove whether potentially active fish are present to strike. Even if you saw fish on a finder doesn't mean they won't come out their stupor to hit even the best lures and presentations.
That's it in a big nutshell and again based on my experience fishing the many waters I fish and in areas of those waters in less than 12'. (Can't fish deeper than that to save my life!)