Bearing counts

The old story is "more bearings" is better. I'm interested only in the truth (or facts). I like my Shimano Sienna FG series, so I admit to being a bit partial. However, I read everyone giving reviews of the Pflueger President series (I assume the pressp20x is the latest and greatest). Shimano says the Sienna FG has 3+1 bearings. Pflueger says the pressp20x has 7 bearings.

If memory serves, 3+1 is "3 ball bearings, 1 roller bearing". So, I look at https://www.reelschematic.com/wp-con...%2019SN5FG.pdf and indeed find 3 ball bearings, one under the rotor and 2 on the handle shaft (on either side of the drive gear).

So, I look at the pressp20x http://s7d5.scene7.com/is/content/pu...%201425597.pdf . I find 4 ball bearings. One is in the bail assembly, two on the handle shaft and one under the rotor. The bail is the one bearing difference. I'm missing 3 bearings.

I have a shimano sienna 500fg so I took the bail apart to see what was under the line roller. It's a "bushing", not a bearing. The roller bearing is normally part of the anti-reverse clutch. So, all 3 ball bearings and the roller bearing are accounted for.

The President 20x, I have to assume that the anti-reverse clutch there also has a roller bearing, so that leaves 2 missing bearings. I'd also be curious if someone with the President pressp20x would see what the bearing looks like under the line roller or if it's really just a bushing being called a "bearing". If anyone knows where those other 2 bearings are hiding, please let me know.

The point isn't to bash one product or another, but rather to compare "apples to apples". The reason I went on the "bearing hunt" was because I was looking at adding a President. Pflueger advertises the 20x with 6.2 ounces, 6 pound drag and 20.2" retrieve. The Sienna 500fg is advertised as 6.3 ounces, 4 pound max drag, and 27 inch retrieve. Both are rated to hold 100 yards of 4 pound mono. On paper, the pflueger is lighter, stronger drag, less line retrieved per crank (with ultralight, that becomes even more important).

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Originally Posted by Schmoopie

The old story is "more bearings" is better.

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"Better bearings" is better. I would take Daiwa and Shimano bearings over anybody else's.

Go Japanese or go home.

Hard to beat those manufacturers, and it's not just the bearings. In the price range the OP is comparing, none will be Japanese, even Diawa and Shimano.

I own 2 Pflueger 20's. They are nice but the upgraded line roller system and new spool design of Shimano Sienna and Sahara are a grade above. My 2cts.

When did the upgraded Siennas come out? Just recently? I have two but they are at least a year old, one more than that.

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Originally Posted by trypman1

I own 2 Pflueger 20's. They are nice but the upgraded line roller system and new spool design of Shimano Sienna and Sahara are a grade above. My 2cts.

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My new siennas are trimmed with more red, don’t know if that helps. Pretty good little reel.

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Originally Posted by Fishfishwish

When did the upgraded Siennas come out? Just recently? I have two but they are at least a year old, one more than that.

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The FG is the latest, it's black and red. The FE was the previous model (no FF model) and it had 1+1 bearings (in the 1000 series at least). I don't believe the FE had a 500 series.

In the handles. Bought a Chinese reel with 19 bearings. 8 are in the handles!

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

I mentioned the President, because its a good reel and doesn't cost a lot of coin. But personally, I'm an ABU guy, I have two of the Revo Premier in size 10... Those little darlings are smoooooooooooooth!

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Originally Posted by deathb4disco

"Better bearings" is better. I would take Daiwa and Shimano bearings over anybody else's.

Go Japanese or go home.

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But you can buy replacement bearings and upgrade the quality for most sizes.

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Originally Posted by Schmoopie

But you can buy replacement bearings and upgrade the quality for most sizes.

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I’m not a “tackle tinkerer”. I’d rather just buy a good reel upfront and be done with it. If you’re into that, though, go for it.

When it comes to stock bearings with spinning reels you are not going to notice much difference , when talking baitcasters that is where better bearings shine. Installing high end bearings can add much distance to your casts and handle lighter baits better.

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Originally Posted by Bricks

When it comes to stock bearings with spinning reels you are not going to notice much difference , when talking baitcasters that is where better bearings shine. Installing high end bearings can add much distance to your casts and handle lighter baits better.

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You can notice a lot of difference in just adding 2 bearings to the handle knob on any spinning reel. You will also notice a big difference if you have a spinning reel that has just bushings in the line roller by adding one bearing...or better yet 2 bearings to the line roller will give one a lot less line twist. Adding spool support and drag support bearings will not be noticeable as you crank a reel but it sure will make the drag better. I have tuned all my spinning reels....at least the ones that can be tuned. The Presso Limited and Shimano Twin Power cannot be tuned.....nowhere to add any bearings. Then if you really want to get low inertia and ultimate smoothness you can change out all the stock bearings with oil tuned bearings. But nobody is going to do this on inexpensive spinning reels. You can take a lot of 200 dollar reels out of Japan and spend 35 buck on a bearing kit and really make the reel shine. When you get to the 300 dollar range and up usually not much you can do.

Regards

when we used to "combat ketch" up on the Russian and the Kenai and go after what is commonly known as the hands down strongest fish lb for lb in the world . we opted quite often for the most bearings we could find in open faced spinning reels on the high end . those fish will flat destroy regular tackle and average anglers to the point of hilarity .
but to make a very long story short I found that an open faced salt water Penn was totally able to handle those fish beside 300 dollar reels all day long with 3 bearings and not 7 like some of those high dollar reels had . I still own that reel and it still works great and to be sure I think it topped well over a thousand of those reel burning super fish and even got loaned to some less fortunate tackle folks while I rested a few times on the bank …..
so my 2.5 cents worth is that the bearing count isn't near as important as the quality of the reel and sometimes it isn't about what costs more …. :highfive

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Originally Posted by Alphahawk

You can notice a lot of difference in just adding 2 bearings to the handle knob on any spinning reel. You will also notice a big difference if you have a spinning reel that has just bushings in the line roller by adding one bearing...or better yet 2 bearings to the line roller will give one a lot less line twist. Adding spool support and drag support bearings will not be noticeable as you crank a reel but it sure will make the drag better. I have tuned all my spinning reels....at least the ones that can be tuned. The Presso Limited and Shimano Twin Power cannot be tuned.....nowhere to add any bearings. Then if you really want to get low inertia and ultimate smoothness you can change out all the stock bearings with oil tuned bearings. But nobody is going to do this on inexpensive spinning reels. You can take a lot of 200 dollar reels out of Japan and spend 35 buck on a bearing kit and really make the reel shine. When you get to the 300 dollar range and up usually not much you can do.

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How do you add bearings to the line roller? Is it just a ball bearing that replaces the bushing? I have heard the roller reduces line twist, and here's where I have an issue with that. Whether the line rolls over a stationary "line roller" or a moving line roller, the line is still being wrapped around a spool. I've never understood how a line roller can reduce twist. The line is going to be twisted the exact same amount my that process. The only reason I could see one working better than the other as far as line twist would be if one wraps the twisted line around the spool while the other doesn't wrap the line with the twist and instead keeps the twist on the line in front of the spool. Even then, the twist occurs from the process of changing from a vertical to a horizontal wrap, and that would involve the line being able to "spin" in the "v" of the line roller and bearings have no impact on that as the line is perpendicular to the bearing at that point. I'm just trying to understand from a scientific standpoint how the bearing can possibly impact line twist.

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Originally Posted by Schmoopie

How do you add bearings to the line roller? Is it just a ball bearing that replaces the bushing? I have heard the roller reduces line twist, and here's where I have an issue with that. Whether the line rolls over a stationary "line roller" or a moving line roller, the line is still being wrapped around a spool. I've never understood how a line roller can reduce twist. The line is going to be twisted the exact same amount my that process. The only reason I could see one working better than the other as far as line twist would be if one wraps the twisted line around the spool while the other doesn't wrap the line with the twist and instead keeps the twist on the line in front of the spool. Even then, the twist occurs from the process of changing from a vertical to a horizontal wrap, and that would involve the line being able to "spin" in the "v" of the line roller and bearings have no impact on that as the line is perpendicular to the bearing at that point. I'm just trying to understand from a scientific standpoint how the bearing can possibly impact line twist.

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You have to know the proper size bearing to add one to the reel. As to the scientific reason for line roller bearings the only one I know of is less friction. I'm not an engineer so I can't speak to those terms. Line roller bearings help with less friction...and also to help keep the line centered on the roller. I can just tell you from years of actual use line roller bearings greatly reduce twist....and along with superb design of the reel. If you have never watched one of my videos take a look. People are all the time telling me "Don't you realize by cranking when a fish is pulling drag you're adding line twist?" The answer is no...I do not get line twist. I use a line that is made out of polyester....breaks at 2.3# test....no stretch. It is probably the hardest line to manage on the planet...some on here use it...ask them. I do not get line twist....period. I am using a high end reel that part of its design is to prevent line twist...and it does a fantastic job. One may not want to pay the money.....but it does what it was designed to do.


Regards

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Originally Posted by Alphahawk

I am using a high end reel that part of its design is to prevent line twist...and it does a fantastic job.

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For me, this "anti-line twist" feature is one of the main reasons to spend more on a spinning reel.