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Can some of y'all please explain to me the concept of counting the jig down. I understand most of it a certain weight jig tied to certain line falls at a certain rate. But how does the jig stay at a constant depth during retrieval? I have always been interested in this method and would like to add it to my arsenal but I just don't fully understand it. And that causes lack of confidence in it.
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This is the way I fish...unless bed fishing. In July and August I catch a ton of crappie.....KY bass....in 21 feet of water on the bottom. In October-December I fish for bluegill in 21 feet of water....they are on the bottom. They are in 21 feet of water. This is the main reason I went to a sinking line. Doing a retrieve using nylon it is darn near impossible to keep it down using micro jigs. I also have low speed reels which helps a lot. In the 21 feet I use a count of 35 seconds to get it down for a 1.5 gram jig head....close to a 1/19 ounce. I leave my bail open and let line out to help the jig fall down as straight as possible instead of back towards me. It is very hard to keep it at the same depth. I cast past the fish and on my retrieve it goes though them close to the depth they are at or just above them. You may have read some of my posts where I tell a story about my son fishing together. Same lure...same jig head.....he was fishing nylon I was fishing the polyester line....which sinks. I caught a fish every cast...he caught I think one fish. It is in one of my videos that this happened. I felt bad for him. But the next time out to same spot he stayed with me fish to fish. The difference that time out.....I gave him a spool of my sinking line and he had purchased a low speed reel. Fluorocarbon line sinks even better than the polyester. A small diameter braid...while it is neutral buoyancy also.....will sink better than nylon will. You will need to go out and practice counting down until it bottoms out and then you can get an idea of how long it takes to get the bottom at a certain depth. If you are fishing in 20 feet of water, yet the fish are 10 feet deep, I just make a few cast and count down until I start catching then make the same count every cast. If you give a sinking line a try you will be amazed at how much faster a lure falls over nylon. This past week I had to use nylon line as I was getting into larger white bass than my polyester line could handle. I had to adjust my count and retrieve rate considerably.Quote:
Originally Posted by catchNgrease
Regards
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Count down method is used to get the jig at a certain depth BEFORE you start the retrieve. The speed of the retrieve, at that point, is what keeps the jig at the required depth .... well, to a degree, more or less. :twocents
If I cast a 1/16oz jig/plastics 40ft & start my retrieve at splashdown, hold my rod at about the 10 o:clock position, & reel in just fast enough to keep a slight bow in the line (constantly thru the retrieve) ... I'm confident that the jig will reach around 8ft deep at the deepest portion of its dive. If I want the jig to basically stay at the 8ft depth level thru the majority of the length of the cast, I'd count it down (8secs) at splashdown & lower my rod to about the 8 o:clock position & speed up my retrieve to where the line didn't have much (if any) bow in it. I wouldn't know "for sure" that the jig maintained the 8ft depth throughout the majority of the distance, but I could stop reeling when the line was getting close to being slightly angled down from the rod tip & lift the rod up and gauge how deep the jig was at that point. Or, as most people usually do, I could always make several casts to the same spot & countdown starting at say 6secs .... and progress thru the countdown all the way to say 10secs .... and figure I probably ran my jig "close enough, long enough" thru the depth range at some point in that session of casts.
The guys above have given you a good summary. I first started using the method in the late 1970's after reading an article by Charlie Brewer in the old Fishing Facts magazine. (I still have the article.)
I always recommend Charlie's book for anybody wanting to learn jig fishing:
Charlie Brewer Sr. on Slider Fishn'
I really appreciate you guys' wisdom and your responses.
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A good post and read! Thanks
I have a bud or 2 that do it and it is attainable , I just have not mastered it myself
This is a technique I haven't tried too much yet for crappie. Good information in this thread. I usually use a float rig with a gulp minnow or crappie jig for suspended crappie myself and it normally works better than most other techniques.
I've ordered the book and am looking at options for spare pfluger & shimano spools. Next I'll research archives here for good choices on polyester line.
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My take on the countdown, and all that has been said so far is very good. Not knowing how long to get to the bottom, I establish that first. Cast, leave the bail open and the rod at 10oclock, and count. When the line is no longer at a bow and falls to the water, that is bottom and stop counting. Now ask yourself where you think the fish will be. If close to the bottom, which was say 25, then repeat the cast and begin your retrieve at say20. Repeat this for say 5 casts. Nothing, then start at 17 for5 casts. When you find the right count the fish will tell you. If there’s brush around, do the opposite. Start you retrieve at say 5. No brush then go to 6 and so on til you tic a branch or bump something , then be sure not to go longer than that count unless you don’t like that jig. It’s all about consistency to stay out of the trash and get as close as you can to get the fish out.
Be more concerned with retrieval speed (you can even let the bait land on lake bottom ) a count of 4 to make one complete turn of the handle . next time 6, next 8 , ect . easier to duplicate . You can say a ft. drop per second (even though it want always fall that fast)rather than hitting the bottom . Being able to consistently measure is way important than how deep the jig actually is . In comparison pulling cranks someone may say to put out 80 ft. of line . bait , rod tip above water , line size all change depth running . A means of measurement is the main thing . Being able to vary will allow you to fish the whole water column:twocents .
Watching my jig on Livescope has taught me exactly how my jig behaves and sinks. I found that I needed a longer count than I thought to get to depth, and a much slower retrieve than I was using to keep the jig at the same depth. Sometimes it is aggravating waiting for the jig to get down to the fish, even more when they don't hit it.
:biggrin
I appreciate all help so far. Alphahawk responded to the heavier leader thread about specific gravity.
Still in theory.
With 4 lb test mono and a 1/24 oz jig wouldn't you achieve the same sink rate?
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I guess the real question I'm asking is. How come you can't speed up or slow down the fall simply by adjusting jig weight? Opions/fish intuition are fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by catchNgrease
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You most certainly can do that.Quote:
Originally Posted by catchNgrease
Regards
If I'm reading you right, you're judging the fall rate of your jig on a tight line (bail closed & rod held steady) and that's why you want to know if smaller/larger diameter lines will change that rate of fall ... correct ?
IMHO ... it would, but you probably wouldn't be able to tell all that much difference. As Alphahawk stated, it would likely be only microseconds in difference. You'd likely have to have jig weights in 1/100oz increments or even 1/1000oz increments to match up with the line diameters. Remember, different brands of mono are listed as 2lb test, 4lb test, etc. but not all of the same pound tests of those different brands have the same diameter. Even so, they're only different by thousandths of an inch. And not every jighead, even from the same brand or custom pourer is going to weigh exactly the same. And what you have on the jighead will make a difference, too. Salt impregnated plastics are heavier, and some plastics have bubbles in them and are more buoyant, while others have various sizes and shapes of tails which can slow the fall rate ... and those with feathers/marabou have less drag in the water.
What I'm saying is there are so many variables that you'd likely have to have a scientific lab to measure and corroborate all the different possible outcomes accurately. :twocents
One of my main concerns is that in our lake system Tennessee River Wheeler and Wilson I'm not sure that a 1/32 with 4lb PE would ever sink. I think our current is too hard. And I really want to learn this technique.
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Although he mainly fished in Tennessee, Charlie Brewer occasionally fished Wheeler and Wilson and caught plenty of fish. He was using plain ol' mono.Quote:
Originally Posted by catchNgrease
Current that strong a 1/16 should be fine .You would still be using the count down method . jmo.Quote:
Originally Posted by catchNgrease
I got out and played with what y'all suggested for a bit today. Still using same equipment I had with 6# Mr Crappie a hand tied buck tail tipped with a mealworm. Most fish were caught 7 seconds deep. Caught close to 30 and returned them all. Later on they started getting picky and wanted it dead stick. Rigged a Quill slip bobber style. Attachment 364070Attachment 364071Attachment 364072
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Very nice !those worms working out nice .
Yes they are. They moving a little fast for now darkling's crawling everywhere.
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Forgot to mention. You clean your fish like my Daddy. Sometimes I miss the skin.
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