Battery question for Livescope

Hi Guys, Making my livescope into a portable unit so I can move between the bay boat and the pontoon. will be using a setup like (Flefly YouTube)
I saw he was using a 10ah LiFePo.. I'm thinking that's not enough battery, needs to be a 20 ah or above.. So is going with a lithium the way to go, or stick with AGM
The 20ah AGM is around 12 lbs.. 20 ah LiFePo is just shy of 6, but 5x the cost... Are the Lithiums worth it in the long run? I don't think weight would be a deal breaker for me ( I could just lose the 6 lbs)
What brand battery would you recommend? Has anyone already done this setup??

Before I ponied up the cash for a LiFePO4 50 Ah Ionic, I was (and still do sometimes) using this battery: Duracell Ultra 12V 35AH Deep Cycle AGM SLA Battery - SLADC12-35J at Batteries Plus Bulbs

35 AH, a little heavy, but runs a 102sv and a PLS 6+ hours.

My 2 cents

Similar system for 2 boats but I just added a power connection on each boat to plug into the box.

Each boat has an onboard charger so no recharge worries.

Is there a situation where you would need the portable power supply?

If you are going to mount the graph on top of the box, the heavier AGM would make it less prone to falling over.

Outside of the weight difference, 20AH is 20AH ,so that boils down to just cost and convenience.

The pontoon battery would be right by it, power plug for that would be easy, no onboard charger, need to put one on it
Bay boat would be quite a run, but may be good too
Have 4 batteries on that boat, only a 2 bank charger for tm...crank and electronics batteries are in back separate, I either need to put another 2 bank charger on them or find a 4 bank and do some wiring been just hooking the electronics battery to a separate charger
Mounting the garmin to box would save me from having to make another mounting system for the graph
More decisions I guess...

MikeF, what kind of power connection did you add on the boat? I think I'll go this route.. I've got wire hanging around, I just need to look at the connection ports. I'm assuming a 2 pin port and plug for both or is there a better option/recommendation?
My battery is in the back of the 22 ft bay boat, I'll run 8 ga. for LS, and 10 ga for the Garmin?

Many ways to do it.

Depends on the boat layout.

The links are just examples.

Both my boats have a inline 8 ga maxi fuse at battery with a switch feeding a fuse panel.
I feed the livescope and graph with 10 ga from the fuse panel.


Robot Check


Battery Switches | bep


Robot Check


The 2 conductor connections can be anything from a Tmotor plug to insulated spade connections.



Robot Check

Robot Check


Really depends on what you have to work with as far as space and access.
In both boats I have a fuse panel mid ship fed by 8 ga from a fused /switched connection at the battery.
You may have to run separate leads which just adds more fuse/switches.


Just make sure you fuse the run from the battery, at the battery and again at the leads to the equipment.

Good luck with the project


The links work but show robot check.
Not sure why.

Jawjatek, will the Duracell battery you talk about be good for just running panoptix? My Garmin 93sv will be run to my starting battery, my boat already has wiring for that at the bow. If it will work how long will it get on a charge and what charger do you use for it? Thanks for any help you can give.

They both must have the same power source infact you need to twist your power wires together to get the exact same connection

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jiggin john

Jawjatek, will the Duracell battery you talk about be good for just running panoptix? My Garmin 93sv will be run to my starting battery, my boat already has wiring for that at the bow. If it will work how long will it get on a charge and what charger do you use for it? Thanks for any help you can give.

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Hang on a sec while I shake up the magic 8-ball... just kidding. I presume you mean running just the GLS10 box on the batt? So, ball park 35/5 = 7 hours. Approximately. I charge with a Noco G7200 and, I confess, I never timed it from a fully run down condition - I've never run it down to where anything shut off, but I have seen the Garmin showing 11.8V after a long day. I hook it up when I get home, and after supper (a few hours) it is fully charged. I also use the same Noco to charge the Ionic 50 Ah lithium, and that also takes a couple hours at the most. Max charging current is 7.2A, so worst case charge time is (ball-park) 35/7 = 5 hours. I use a Dual Pro mounted in the boat for the TM batteries, but haven't decided on a 3-output boat-resident charger for the 2 AGM TM batts and a Lithium electronics batt. Just gonna use what I have for now; since I garage my boat, its not a big deal. HTH

I run my black box and my Ultra 122 Livescope system 8 hours plus off of a single 35AH AGM battery with no issues. I think the lowest I've seen the voltage drop to is 11.9. It is really a pretty small battery. It sits right beside my black box in a small compartment in the bow of my Lund. I would definitely recommend connecting both the black box and the unit to the same power source and not the cranking battery. I've been running my Livescope system this way for the last year without any issuses.

Thanks Jawjatek. So as gobbler says fish finder and GLS box have to be wired to same power source?

Thanks Roy. I guess I will just unhook my fish finder and hook it to same battery, I thought I would just add new battery just for just the livescope wasn’t aware they should be wired to the same battery. Sorry about all the questions this is all new to me.

Dependable, interference-free sonar operation trumps considerations of convenience every time, when it comes to wiring. Do it right, do it once, go fishing. That's my opinion.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jawjatek

Before I ponied up the cash for a LiFePO4 50 Ah Ionic, I was (and still do sometimes) using this battery: Duracell Ultra 12V 35AH Deep Cycle AGM SLA Battery - SLADC12-35J at Batteries Plus Bulbs

35 AH, a little heavy, but runs a 102sv and a PLS 6+ hours.

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I'll spend that much on cable if i go to the back

Sent from my SM-G965U using Crappie.com Fishing mobile app

Can someone help me understand why you have to run both units off the same battery? I plan on adding livescope to my 93sv this spring and I hope to do it right the first time.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I assumed it's in the installation instructions.
But i don't have one.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Crappie.com Fishing mobile app

You don't "have to". In electrical engineering we deal with a phenomena called a "ground loop" that can introduce common-mode noise between two devices that are at different ground potentials, or that share grounds with other signals. However, since the connection between your head and the GLS10 black box is ethernet, it may very well be transformer-coupled, which would attenuate the common-mode noise. Also, the ethernet signals are differential, which provides even more attenuation of common-mode noise.

Using two separate batteries on a boat means one battery's ground will be "floating" with respect to another battery, unless the grounds are bonded otherwise. As soon as you connect the 2 devices, the grounds will be connected by the shield or ground of the connecting cable. Any difference in ground potential will cause noise current to flow in the shield conductor. This tends to increase the common-mode noise. A common trick in audio engineering is to float one end of the shield, this is called a "ground lift".

In sonar/chartplotter installs, it is always best to avoid sharing a battery with a trolling motor, in case you were thinking of this, because the arcing inside the brushed DC motor, as well as the pulse-width modulation of the drive voltage, generates lots of wide-band noise which can couple into sensitive signals in the sonar system.

I'm not sure why you need to use different power sources for the head and the GLS 10 box. It may very well work fine. Try it.

A friend of mine had a Garmin Livescope installed at BPS. They connected the black box to a separate battery than the unit. After several trips on the water the unit kept losing connection between the unit and the black box. My friend was taking his boat back to BP to have both the unit and black box connected to the same battery as instructed by a Garmin tech. I hope this solves his issue. I'll post if I hear from him.

:hesaid

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jawjatek

You don't "have to". In electrical engineering we deal with a phenomena called a "ground loop" that can introduce common-mode noise between two devices that are at different ground potentials, or that share grounds with other signals. However, since the connection between your head and the GLS10 black box is ethernet, it may very well be transformer-coupled, which would attenuate the common-mode noise. Also, the ethernet signals are differential, which provides even more attenuation of common-mode noise.

Using two separate batteries on a boat means one battery's ground will be "floating" with respect to another battery, unless the grounds are bonded otherwise. As soon as you connect the 2 devices, the grounds will be connected by the shield or ground of the connecting cable. Any difference in ground potential will cause noise current to flow in the shield conductor. This tends to increase the common-mode noise. A common trick in audio engineering is to float one end of the shield, this is called a "ground lift".

In sonar/chartplotter installs, it is always best to avoid sharing a battery with a trolling motor, in case you were thinking of this, because the arcing inside the brushed DC motor, as well as the pulse-width modulation of the drive voltage, generates lots of wide-band noise which can couple into sensitive signals in the sonar system.

I'm not sure why you need to use different power sources for the head and the GLS 10 box. It may very well work fine. Try it.

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Thanks for the feed back jawjatek, I have my 93sv running off the engine battery and was planning on adding a Duracell Ultra 12V 35AH Deep Cycle AGM SLA Battery - SLADC12-35J at Batteries Plus Bulbs up front to run the black box. I was concerned that a voltage drop difference between the two units may cause a problem, but that was the only thing I could see.

John

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikeF

Many ways to do it.


Depends on the boat layout.

The links are just examples.

Both my boats have a inline 8 ga maxi fuse at battery with a switch feeding a fuse panel.
I feed the livescope and graph with 10 ga from the fuse panel.


Robot Check


Battery Switches | bep


Robot Check


The 2 conductor connections can be anything from a Tmotor plug to insulated spade connections.



Robot Check

Robot Check


Really depends on what you have to work with as far as space and access.
In both boats I have a fuse panel mid ship fed by 8 ga from a fused /switched connection at the battery.
You may have to run separate leads which just adds more fuse/switches.


Just make sure you fuse the run from the battery, at the battery and again at the leads to the equipment.

Good luck with the project


The links work but show robot check.
Not sure why.

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Well MikeF, I got a chance to run up to the camp this week, boat is there on a lift..it’s a 2016 Blue wave center console.. looks like I’ll just run another fuse block to the front and power the 93sv, black box and be ready for a Hb 360and hb unit at some time. The fuse block at the console had one space left, ugh.
Luckily I have some #6 and #8 wire left from running some breakers at the camp.
My plan now is to run the #6 from rear battery to a new fuse block under front deck, ( I think I have a few more feet of it than the 8ga)then come off it with quick disconnects #10 wire.

I was looking at the batteries on the boat too..the #1 battery is crank, 2 battery is electronics from the switch both are start batteries.. I thought that was weird