Livewell DIY - water intake problems

Last year I put a DIY livewell in the 2nd seat of my 14' gruman(ex wide ex deep). Room was tight so I did not put a water intake in, had to bucket water in. THis year I finally got tired of bucketing in water so I put in a water intake. Below I tried to draw what I have.

I didn't want to pop a hole in the bottom or run tubing back to the transom I wanted it right by the livewell so I went thru the side right below the water level. No one had a 90 degree thru hull so I had to use a straight one. I cut it off and screw a 90 degree elbow onto what threads where left then attached the hose to that. I think the problem is the tube has a bubble at the crown of the bend before it goes to the LW. When I turn on the pump the bubble gets sucked into the pump making it loose the prime.

My main question is. Is the tubing supposed to flow up or down hill from water intake to pump. Mine flows slightly downhill to the pump.

Attachment 355782

Possibly a bypass vavle at the pump discharge will help it get rid of the bubble. Once the bubble is gone the vavle will be shut to allow normal operation

I had a similar problem with my factory built live well. The intake was at transom. It would develop an air lock and I had to back up to clear it.

not sure about drawing,looks like u could elimanate 90 an be good.

i mint to say could u use flex tubing an not 90.

I have a wareagle with livewell on starboard side. Intake is through side of hull just like yours with pump mounted right at side of hull. It is a nightmare it times to get it to pump water. Boat rolls just a bit and it sucks air. I’m thinking we both have the same problem. To close to surface so not enough water pressure to help force water to the pump. I have thought about trying to rig a 90 on the outside but then I always think it would get broken off. In your particular setup think I’d replace that one 90 with a 45. Seems to me that would make a big difference. Bringing the intake down more level with where pipe goes into well.

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Originally Posted by Keith K

not sure about drawing,looks like u could elimanate 90 an be good.

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that's probably right, its a big mess. Long story on how that happened, its hard to explain.

The thru hull was straight so I drilled the hole right next to the seat. Being straight it pointed up making the hose higher and a big air bubble in the hose. So I cut the hose adapter part and 1/2 the treads off so I could screw a elbow on that would point down. But since it was so close to the side of the seat I couldn't use a elbow with hose adapter, no room the screw it on.

Here's what I ended up with. Probably gona have to find a thru haul 90 degree to replace it all with or try to patch the hole and put in the bottom of the boat. Really don't want to make another hole in my boat.

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL161.../414300437.jpg

Cray, sounds like we have same problem. I also thought about putting in a downspot in the thru haul on outside of boat but eventually would get broken off loading the boat. WIth hole so close to the surface there's no pressure just slow gravity flow of water to prime the pump. I even tried sitting on the edge of the boat to push the hole down lower but all that does is raise the pump higher. Guess I'll just keep bucketing water in until I get it working.

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Originally Posted by Charly

that's probably right, its a big mess. Long story on how that happened, its hard to explain.

The thru hull was straight so I drilled the hole right next to the seat. Being straight it pointed up making the hose higher and a big air bubble in the hose. So I cut the hose adapter part and 1/2 the treads off so I could screw a elbow on that would point down. But since it was so close to the side of the seat I couldn't use a elbow with hose adapter, no room the screw it on.

Here's what I ended up with. Probably gona have to find a thru haul 90 degree to replace it all with or try to patch the hole and put in the bottom of the boat. Really don't want to make another hole in my boat.

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL161.../414300437.jpg

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Seems to me like a 45* coupler would work just fine in place of that blue fitting , with a straight plastic male hose barb on the end.

I have also seen where people have made angle blocks to straighten out the thru hull, and make it parallel with the water. Might help some, although you would need a new thru hull that is long enough to go through them.

If you are having issues with clearance while assembling those parts, you can always back off that thru hull, rotate the 90 away from the seat and floor, assemble the fittings, then swing it back into place and tighten the thru hull nut.

I’m going to make another suggestion, and not being there to put hands on it’s hard to tell. How about installing a livewell pump with the thru hull pipe already installed in that same hole. One similar to this. I know they make a smaller one with smaller pump motor housing. You would just slide the bottom/sycton pipe thru hull and nut on from outside with gasket then rotate head how you needed it to discharge. If you had the clearance from seat.
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This link will take you to a picture of pump.

Just thought of how to get a elbow with hose adapter(blue piece) screwed onto the thru haul even if there is no clearance. I'm gona take it apart and not tighten the nut that screws on the thru haul. Leave it loose, then screw the outside of the thru haul into the blue elbow. The outside part has a slot that a big screw driver can turn the piece. Then when the elbow is tight I just tighten the thru haul nut.

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Originally Posted by Cray

I’m going to make another suggestion, and not being there to put hands on it’s hard to tell. How about installing a livewell pump with the thru hull pipe already installed in that same hole. One similar to this. I know they make a smaller one with smaller pump motor housing. You would just slide the bottom/sycton pipe thru hull and nut on from outside with gasket then rotate head how you needed it to discharge. If you had the clearance from seat.
404 Page

This link will take you to a picture of pump.

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Don't want to buy another pump. If you look at my drawing the one pump does both jobs. It pumps water in thru one valve then I close that valve, open the tank circulation valve and circulate water in the LW. I don't have room to put the 2 valves on the outside of the LW, that is how allot of people set theirs up. They put a T on the pump intake then run 2 lines off the T, one to the LW the other to the thru haul.

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Originally Posted by Charly

Don't want to buy another pump. If you look at my drawing the one pump does both jobs. It pumps water in thru one valve then I close that valve, open the tank circulation valve and circulate water in the LW. I don't have room to put the 2 valves on the outside of the LW, that is how allot of people set theirs up. They put a T on the pump intake then run 2 lines off the T, one to the LW the other to the thru haul.

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I understand, that makes sense.

This is what goes in bottom of my livewell. It has that rubber fitting on bottom that just pushes into a thru hull fitting in bottom of livewell. I’m wondering if that would fit in your thru hull fitting on the outside. Cut pipe off ad glue on a 90 with short piece of pipe. Attach a lanyard to it. When you stop to fish just plug it in and when running just remove it. And with lanyard attached to boat if you took off and it pulled out you wouldn’t loose it.
https://www.wholesalemarine.com/t-h-...iABEgIY2_D_BwE

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Originally Posted by Cray

This is what goes in bottom of my livewell. It has that rubber fitting on bottom that just pushes into a thru hull fitting in bottom of livewell. I’m wondering if that would fit in your thru hull fitting on the outside. Cut pipe off ad glue on a 90 with short piece of pipe. Attach a lanyard to it. When you stop to fish just plug it in and when running just remove it. And with lanyard attached to boat if you took off and it pulled out you wouldn’t loose it.
https://www.wholesalemarine.com/t-h-...iABEgIY2_D_BwE

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Just got back from Rural King with this elbow it may work for you. Couldn't find anything that fit tight into the hole, its a hair small so I wrapped duct tape around it until it fit tight. Its tight enough to stay in place but loose enough I can pull it out. I am hoping I can go forward fast with the elbow pointed forward and it will force water into the pump. Cost 29¢ so if lost its cheaply replaced.

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL161.../414300559.jpg

Redid the setup. I didn't have any clearance to screw a barbed elbow onto the thru haul so I took it apart and then screwed the thru haul into the elbow. THen I tightened down the nut that seals/holds the thru haul tight in place. I didn't have a screwdriver big/wide enough to fit into the thru haul slits so I put a big 2" washer in vise grips, and used it like a screwdriver.

Will find out tomorrow if it works, hoping the added elbow will force water into the pump.

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL161.../414300558.jpg

Revamping didn't work. I even had the elbow pointing towards the front of the boat and going 10mph. The elbow was about 1-1 1/2" below the surface and still didn't force enough water to pump.

Come to the conclusion a few things.

1. Maybe the pump is not strong enough to pull water in from 4-5ft away, its a Tsunami 500 Cartridge Aerator w/ long inlet
2. The thru haul hole(1/2") may be to small since every thing else is 3/4"
3. Probably have to pop another hole thru the bottom of the boat and repair the first hole, not thrilled with that. Be my luck that wouldn't help either.
4. Surely the problem isn't that the water has to go uphill about an inch before it goes down thru hose to pump.

I’m thinking your problem is that those pumps are designed to be mounted thru hull. That way you have water forced into suction side. The little vane type pump is not going to pull much if any vacuum to prime itself. My opinion is your not going to accomplish what you want by poking a hole in bottom of boat and still try to use that pump to pull water any distance.

My pump is a Aerator pump designed to circulate water in a LW, you might be thinking of a beilge pump. I was also wondering if it was powerful enough. But after thinking about how I now get the water out the pump should do the job

I used my LW drain hole to run the water intake thru. Since I no longer had a drain I attached a garden hose with shutoff valve to the end of my aerator hose and to pump the water out of the tank.

I measured it all and the intake length is 47". To pump water out it has to pump uphill 10", thru the aerator 22", then out a garden hose 45". So if it can pump water out uphill 77" I would think its powerful enough to intake water thru 47".

Before I installed my DIY LW I did allot of youtube video watching. I soon realized I wouldn't have enough room to add a intake since my tank was long. I think I will go and watch all the videos I can find that install a water intake.

I now think the problem is when the water comes in it has to go up about 1" then down. In doing that I think a air bubble forms in that elbow bend. A couple times today I did get the pump to run intake water 1-2 sec. but I seen a small air bubble go thru and then it would stop pumping.

I know you said you didn’t want to use another pump but something like this style of Rule livewell pump with an angled threaded intake looks like it would be the bee’s knees for your application given your photos. Enlarge intake hole, install pump with threaded intake through hull and thru-hull fitting tightened down onto threaded pump intake. Then you can run your hose from the pump to livewell. Just throwing another idea around for you.

Attachment 355961

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Originally Posted by Charly

Before I installed my DIY LW I did allot of youtube video watching. I soon realized I wouldn't have enough room to add a intake since my tank was long. I think I will go and watch all the videos I can find that install a water intake.

I now think the problem is when the water comes in it has to go up about 1" then down. In doing that I think a air bubble forms in that elbow bend. A couple times today I did get the pump to run intake water 1-2 sec. but I seen a small air bubble go thru and then it would stop pumping.

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Once it is pumping water, it should continue to pump water unless it is sucking air into the system and losing prime. I can see where the system being air locked would prevent it from starting to pump. Once the air lock is cleared and a fluid path established it should continue to draw water at long as the pump runs given the intake remains in the water.

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Originally Posted by Dutch552

I know you said you didn’t want to use another pump but something like this style of Rule livewell pump with an angled threaded intake looks like it would be the bee’s knees for your application given your photos. Enlarge intake hole, install pump with threaded intake through hull and thru-hull fitting tightened down onto threaded pump intake. Then you can run your hose from the pump to livewell. Just throwing another idea around for you.

Attachment 355961

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That’s exactly the kind of pump I was referencing..

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Originally Posted by Dutch552

I know you said you didn’t want to use another pump but something like this style of Rule livewell pump with an angled threaded intake looks like it would be the bee’s knees for your application given your photos. Enlarge intake hole, install pump with threaded intake through hull and thru-hull fitting tightened down onto threaded pump intake. Then you can run your hose from the pump to livewell. Just throwing another idea around for you.

Attachment 355961

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Run two pumps???Maybe, this one through hull to the original pump,use both to fill, run original pump for circulation,emptying ect.

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Run two pumps???Maybe, this one through hull to the original pump,use both to fill, run original pump for circulation,emptying ect.

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tks for the input but adding another pump means more $, would have to run wires across the boat from left side my battery wires run down the right, and would have to install another switch.

I cut a hole in the bottom for intake line. Tomorrow I'll find out if the problem was the intake not completely below water line, I had misjudged the water line. Where it was I had to lean on the left side a little. Doing that raised the pump on the right side which put the pump a little above the water line. Instead of having to plug the first hole I ran my flush hose to it.

Let us know if that fixed it

No more bucket filling the LW. After launch the water came in slow by gravity, after about a minute I turned on the pump and had a couple trinkles out the aerator tube. I leaned a little on the right side(where the pump is) and it started full spray out all holes. Later on I completely emptied it so I could time it filling, it took 3-1/2 minutes. Its 15gal when full so that figures 4.28 gpm or 256 gph. The intake hole is 1/2", the rest of the line is 3/4" so the 1/2" hole probably restricts the flow a little but its fast enough for me.

Good deal. Glad to hear you got it sorted out