Battery charger issue

Hi Everyone,
I'm having a recurring problem with my smart battery charger, GPC 45 Max. Its trying to charge 2 Trojan 6 volt batteries, T 105s , wired in series yielding 12 volts.
I have a 50 breaker wired near the + battery terminal.
All was working well until recently the breaker is popping out when 1st recharging the setup.
FYI the charger is designed for fast charging so it has high output initially, then drops off after a few hours.
The breaker is getting warm if not hot most of the time but today it popped without getting very warm.
I'm using 4 ga jumper cable wiring so that should be ok with the 10 ft run to the batteries.
The only thing I can think of is the connections to the breaker is a set screw and its mashing down on a bunch of loose wires in the jumper cable. Maybe this connection is not solid enough?
Do i need to tin the wires to make better contact?
The charger gets up to 13.77 volts then the breaker pops.
Everything is rather new in the system.

Thanks Attachment 351002Attachment 351003Attachment 351004

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More details
Charger output is 14.84 at charger
14.81 at breaker

Is this voltage drop ok, 4 ga wire, 10 ft run

Thanks

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You got a whole lot going on that setup. Why not just run two 12v in parallel as opposed two in a series of two 6 volts to create 12v? Biggest problem I see is your trying to charge two separate batteries with a single bank charger. 45 amps is a bit strong to recharge deep cycle batteries, your breaker is only a 50 amp, IMO. A slow charge of 15 amps or less is best and then a maintainer charge for DC batteries. Look for a 6v/12v two bank charger and it may just solve your issues :twocents

I know your probably not going to listen to me, but first thing you need to do is remove that breaker and throw it in the trash. It’s nothing more than a choke point in your setup causing resistance which creates heat which has caused it to weaken this now it has broke down to the point it’s going to trip. I can’t remember if you said during your initial post about creating this setup if charger manufacturer required a breaker between charger and battery. But it should not be necessary. Charger should be internally protected. But if you insist on having a breaker you need to install one to handle a minimum of double your output. 80 to 100 in your case. It’s a safety device in case you have a dead short. Which in that case a 100 amp would trip quick as it happened. Get one that has stud’s on it with nuts. Crimp on ends with proper size eyes for those studs. You don’t solder those wires for that type connection.

I do not know about 6 volt batterys in series....but If you had two 12 volt batterys in paralell and a two bank charger with a separate bank going to each deep cycle battery, you would not want to charge over 15 amps per bank. Charging any harder than that deep charging often is going to shorten the life of those batterys. A 50 or 60 amp resetable circuit breaker is required near the battery for the positive lead going to your trolling motor.

Reading the manual for that charger, I fail to understand why they require a breaker when the DC output is clearly protected against over-current by fuses, short-circuit protection, and also "cycle-by-cycle current limiting". I would not use such a breaker, and certainly not one like that, without sturdy terminals, and correct-size lugs properly crimped to the wire, as Cray has mentioned. Actually, in the first place I would never purchase any charger that required such a breaker. The breaker requirement seems to be a misguided CYA requirement from the mfr. (or their lawyers), and does not make technical sense.

Breakers are used, and sized, to protect the wires connected to the battery from over-currents that would exceed their amp capacity and cause a fire hazard. Not as some sort of band-aid to protect a power supply.

Why use 2 6V batteries in series to get 12V anyway? It is not a good idea IMO to use a 12V charger to charge 2 series connected 6V batteries. I suppose you have your reasons, but I don't know what they might be. SMH

Your breaker is probably bad they get weaker the more often they trip.Try a bigger and better quality breaker, charging two six volts in series with a single 12volt charger shouldn't be a problem, lots of farm and heavy equiment ran battery's in series in the 50s-80s and charged them with a single generator or alternator.

Set up is normal except for the breaker. Remove it completely. It will eliminate the issue without affecting the charger setup, the charger unless antique has built-in circuit protection

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I agree - remove the breaker, and go from there.

Agree with above post about taking breaker out. I have 1 just like yours but it is on the trolling motor leads, not the charger.

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Originally Posted by SeaRay

Agree with above post about taking breaker out. I have 1 just like yours but it is on the trolling motor leads, not the charger.

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I got one on the t motor too.
Im going to get rid of the breaker.
Its the only thing getting hot.
Wire is fine.

Thank everyone

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Snubby

You got a whole lot going on that setup. Why not just run two 12v in parallel as opposed two in a series of two 6 volts to create 12v? Biggest problem I see is your trying to charge two separate batteries with a single bank charger. 45 amps is a bit strong to recharge deep cycle batteries, your breaker is only a 50 amp, IMO. A slow charge of 15 amps or less is best and then a maintainer charge for DC batteries. Look for a 6v/12v two bank charger and it may just solve your issues :twocents

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Stubby
Thanks for your help.
The reason im trying this setup is the combined batteries yield 225 AH @ 20 hrs. Or 185AH @ 5 HRS

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14.83 , 14.79

Guys, i pull off the breaker and did my best to solder it up.
Interestingly by charger is putting out a lot more power now.
14.83 v at the charger terminals
Down to 14.79 at the battery.

Is this acceptable voltage drop?
Im looking for evidence that my solder job was ok.
No extra heat coming from the solder joint.

Thanks

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That is very minute drop for that run. If it’s not getting warm you have a good connection. It should drop from that pretty quick. Just check about every thirty minutes and you should see it dropping as batteries start to charge. One other thing. As they are charging use the feel test to see if battery cases start to get very warm. That is not a good thing and could tell you you are charging to fast. Also pull your caps and look for bubbling. I don’t think your going to have a problem now though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cray

That is very minute drop for that run. If it’s not getting warm you have a good connection. It should drop from that pretty quick. Just check about every thirty minutes and you should see it dropping as batteries start to charge. One other thing. As they are charging use the feel test to see if battery cases start to get very warm. That is not a good thing and could tell you you are charging to fast. Also pull your caps and look for bubbling. I don’t think your going to have a problem now though.

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Thanks again,
I stayed with the charger for an hour, putting up tools etc.
Voltage did drop to 13.8 , i did hear some bubbling during the initial the bulk stage.
I will check battery exterior temperatures too.


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Brett, I have question. What kind of run time are you getting out of this setup if you pulling cranks or longlining?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by brettw

Stubby
Thanks for your help.
The reason im trying this setup is the combined batteries yield 225 AH @ 20 hrs. Or 185AH @ 5 HRS

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Fair enough, and no problem!

I changed from two 12 volt parallel wired batteries to 2 six volt series wired golf cart batteries in my motorhome. My run time almost doubled.
This was done on recommendation of an Interstate technical rep at an RV rally. The price was similar for 12 vs 6 volt. The specs on the 6 volt show a considerably higher reserve capacity. The 12 volt on board charger had 2 leads. The positive went on the positive of one battery and the negative of 2nd battery.it's basically just a really big 12 volt battery when wired in series.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cray

Brett, I have question. What kind of run time are you getting out of this setup if you pulling cranks or longlining?

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Good question.
Fact is ive never gotten to do extensive pulling since installation.
I just wanted to try something different
I was killing my battery last spring.
We only have black crappie where i fish so it easy on the trolling motor in the summer.
I suspect the AH numbers are accurate.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by SeaRay

I changed from two 12 volt parallel wired batteries to 2 six volt series wired golf cart batteries in my motorhome. My run time almost doubled.
This was done on recommendation of an Interstate technical rep at an RV rally. The price was similar for 12 vs 6 volt. The specs on the 6 volt show a considerably higher reserve capacity. The 12 volt on board charger had 2 leads. The positive went on the positive of one battery and the negative of 2nd battery.it's basically just a really big 12 volt battery when wired in series.

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Yes and the Trojan T105s are heavy. More lead =more capacity. Sams club has less expensive 6 v golf cart batteries.

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My hope is that with a good smart charger, the batteries will last a long time

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They should. The secret is keeping them full of water and charging to full capacity as soon as possible. I have gotten 5 years out of Walmart batteries and golf cart’s are more designed for this so you should more than get your money’s worth.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cray

They should. The secret is keeping them full of water and charging to full capacity as soon as possible. I have gotten 5 years out of Walmart batteries and golf cart’s are more designed for this so you should more than get your money’s worth.

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Hope so
How often do you check the water level

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by brettw

Hope so
How often do you check the water level

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Try to check every 60 days. Usually have to add about every 6 months. I got a cheap turkey blaster from dollar store and put silicone around bulb where it attaches to tube to seal good. Use distilled water. Add to top of ring at bottom of cap plug hole after charging.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by brettw

Hope so
How often do you check the water level

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If I'm using & charging my batteries often, I'll check the water level every other week (w/new batteries) until I figure out how long it takes for the water level to significantly drop to where they need water added. Otherwise I check & charge once a month during the months I'm not using them.

As long as the water level is above the plates .... charge the battery first, then add distilled water up to within 1/4" of the bottom of the fill hole.

*** (this is in reference to regular marine deep cycle lead acid batteries)

Like Cray .... I've gotten 5-7yrs service from Walmart Everstart marine batteries, following this procedure.