Humminbird/Minn Kota rant

This may be the wrong forum for this but my disgust has gotten the best of me. It will probably sound like a lot of whining to many of you, but this is something very frustrating to me and feel there could be some major improvement in communication and customer satisfaction with these 2 companies. I've been trying to figure out the best way to equip my boat for the future. I saved for quite some time to be able to purchase a new Ulterra. Had to purchase a transducer mount from Cornfield to run my DI unit. Not knocking the mount. It works OK but still have tangles with the coils from time to time but it does its job. My point is that very shortly after I make what is to me a very expensive purchase, Minn Kota comes out with a built in Mega transducer which would have eliminated the need for the mount as I was seriously considering a new FF to network with the HB899 on the console. If they had announced that they were working on the transducer swap I could have held off my purchase and been able to purchase the motor and a new mega unit that were completely compatible. I feel this is absolutely intentional on Johnson Outdoors part. They could put some research into upgrading the transducer in the existing TM's to accept the new transducers but that cuts down on selling brand new motors to those of us who can afford a new TM every couple of years or less just to get the functionality afforded by the newer units. I truly believe that coming up with an upgraded transducer for existing motors would be a fairly simple development that would benefit a great many of us. It would also go a long way toward customer satisfaction towards these products. I enjoy my Ulterra. It does what it is supposed to do. However it could be greatly improved with a simple upgrade. I am hoping that someone with some sort of pull will see this and push for this improvement. Thanks for letting me vent.:banghead

I'm with you n this one JDnni bought the Mega 10 helix and it's Not ungradable with new parts either....

I agree that they should make announcements at least 180 days in advance, 6 month out they are well into production and any serious competitor is most likely well aware of whats coming and if they are not there not going to do much in that amount of time.

As for upgrading the older units with the new parts as nice as that sounds and would personally benefit myself I understand that with the 100's of millions of $$$ invested the manufactures just can't go down that road and still keep their stockholders happy.

First, I'm not just trying to stir the pot here, only present another perspective. I don't believe it's just about stockholders and trying to squeeze everything they can out of you, and I'm only speculating here, but another consideration is that the research and development required to upgrade an existing product vs. replacing it with a new model (if it's even possible, i.e. new ic chips, etc. which would void warranties and is WAY beyond the scope of most people's skill set) could potentially cost so much and increase the time to market so much more that it would price the already expensive units so far out of reach of the average fisherman as to make it not feasible. Couple that with the fact that they now have to employ many more people to support walking someone through an upgrade who isn't that tech savvy to begin with. Again, you're building more cost into the original purchase price of the unit. Then, if someone does something wrong and messes up the unit they're coming on every forum talking about how bad these units are and then the company's reputation is damaged because someone doesn't know how to place a 300 pin IC into a socket without bending a pin (which can be very difficult).
Another question you might ask yourself, "am I willing to void my warranty on my trolling motor to upgrade the transducer"? I assume (I don't have an Ultera) that you'd have to crack open the motor casing to get the integrated transducer out and upgrade it with new crystals or whatever, or even a new transducer; is Humminbird then responsible if you don't get the seal exactly right and water gets in and shorts out the motor? Then, (not you but someone) will come on a forum and start bashing the product because the motor fails.
My point is while I agree that things that are a software upgrade only should be user upgradable, but with physical parts and pieces, the liability to the company and to the user outweighs the relatively cost savings. If the company had to shoulder that burden, your Ultera would have cost 3Xs what it does now.
All that being said, I too would prefer to be able to upgrade in place rather than buy new, I'm just trying to see it from all angles.

I agree with you in part. However if your 2D transducer fails under warranty, is that a replaceable part? Do they just trash an entire motor? Doubtful. I believe they could and do replace the transducer. So I can't see why they could not replace it with a Mega plus transducer if there was one . Not an engineer but it seems plausible to me. Out of warranty they are not responsible no matter why the unit leaks and is on you. Agreed there are some out there that will blame the company no matter what happens, I just don't see this as a very large challenge considering the sheer number of customers that could benefit. Even if it was a dealership only item I feel it could be an option.

In terms of replacing the the transducer with a different transducer, as long as the fit is exactly the same and doesn't require structural alteration or other changes, I don't disagree that perhaps they could/should be able to have a customer send the trolling motor in and have it retrofitted (barring, of course, any other limiting factors that we aren't aware of like the mega is 2mm wider than the original to prevent standing wave frequency interference or something like that). I was primarily speaking in gross generalizations about taking the question a step or two deeper to see that while it would be nice to be able to just upgrade some of this stuff ourselves, there may be aspects of upgrading that we don't always look at past "they just want to sell us the new version of the product". I really believe that're more interested in providing a quality product at a price point, and making users happy with it than just trying to make as much money off of us as they can. Personally, my experience with Humminbird's customer service has been fantastic. I only have one complaint about it and it's a purely selfish one, and that's I wish customer service was available on the weekends.

I'll just have to agree to disagree. I truly believe that some of these upgrades could be accomplished if they made it a priority. Especially the mechanical over the software based upgrades. If I could get my hands on a junk motor I would love to open it up and see what makes it so difficult. The new transducer wouldn't necessarily have to go inside the housing just need to get the cable up through the shaft and properly seal the unit. The transducer itself could mount just like any other TM transducer. I am not very tech savvy but know there are people out there that understand the phrase "Get it Done". If Johnson said and meant this to their engineering/software staff I'm sure we would see some upgrades. If you don't believe me, take a look at the movie Apollo 13. Really shows what can be done if you have to. I think sometimes the word "can't" is substituted for the word "won't" in far to many instances. Like I said, just my opinion.

Having HAD to buy a Mega transducer equipped T/M just to get I link very disappointed with Minn Kota. They forced me into buying something that I didn't need. If I connect the transducer to my Helix I will loose SI. So now I am forced to get another screen only with DI. When they could have a unit that has I link only. As far as up grading I tend to think I will use my new T/M for some time to come just like my cell phone and PC.

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How do you think us Lowrance users feel? They could have developed one that is Lowrance compatible and make that many more sales.

Everything you buy as soon as you buy is outdated. Stereos, phones, computers and all levels of consumers goods are constantly updated. Surely this is not the first time you have seen this.

You buy a FF they come out with Mega the next year, You buy a car they come out with a new feature the next year. New TV? Now they came out with 4K right after you buy a new one, etc, etc, etc. Companies have no obligation to announce their intentions to better their products. If you feel the need to have the latest and greatest, then pony up the bucks. Or do like me, I was content and happy when I bought my current product, the fact that there is something newer and greater does not motivate me to get the new product

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Originally Posted by Roger C

Everything you buy as soon as you buy is outdated. Stereos, phones, computers and all levels of consumers goods are constantly updated. Surely this is not the first time you have seen this.

You buy a FF they come out with Mega the next year, You buy a car they come out with a new feature the next year. New TV? Now they came out with 4K right after you buy a new one, etc, etc, etc. Companies have no obligation to announce their intentions to better their products. If you feel the need to have the latest and greatest, then pony up the bucks. Or do like me, I was content and happy when I bought my current product, the fact that there is something newer and greater does not motivate me to get the new product

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I wholeheartedly agree with you on this. We are a people that have to have the latest product and will pay no matter what. Just to be the top dog on the water. Just look at some of the boats on the water, or vehicles on the road. Shoes that cost 200.00, shirts for a hundred.

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Originally Posted by tahoe 50

I wholeheartedly agree with you on this. We are a people that have to have the latest product and will pay no matter what. Just to be the top dog on the water. Just look at some of the boats on the water, or vehicles on the road. Shoes that cost 200.00, shirts for a hundred.

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X2! I mostly buy year end models of everything unless there is a special. I also buy factory refurbs and factory "training use" models. Ima cheeeep!

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Originally Posted by Cane Pole

X2! I mostly buy year end models of everything unless there is a special. I also buy factory refurbs and factory "training use" models. Ima cheeeep!

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#ME TOO Cane Pole, shoes over $50 are too expensive for me, and clothes are getting out of hand. I guess I'll be shopping at Goodwill before long

That is the driving issue behind my post. The closest thing that I have to top of the line is my Ulterra. And I saved a long time to purchase it. I did my research and waited for them to fix the spot lock issue and have time to ensure the latest version worked as advertised. My HB 899 will link with it as expected from the console and I have an older Lowrance Elite 5 that I ran the DI on the TM with a Cornfield Crappie mount. I was wanting to purchase a used HB DI unit for the front that would network with my 899 (hopefully another 899) and my I Pilot Link. Finding a used networking unit is looking like $500-$600 for a decent used unit which is still too rich for my blood.. A little notice from HB that they were coming out with a built in DI transducer and I would have held off a little longer and purchased the DI enabled Ulterra instead. These units will have to last me years and would be nice if they worked together. I realize that everything is outdated as soon as you buy but I'm not going to get another TM for years to come so I want things to work the best that I can for my money. If I had known what they were working on I could have planned and saved for a new Mega for the same price as a used G2N and gotten rid of the DI ducer that gets tangled around the motor. I'm having to cobble together units that don't take full advantage of my Ulterra. I think my solution is a different transducer mount that doesn't interfere with the trolling motor. Just really would have been nice to use a built in transducer if I had known it was coming. I've really enjoyed my Elite 5' DI's (I have 2. Purchased 1 when they discontinued them and 1 used) but really want to take advantage of what my IPilot link has to offer. Just want to do it as inexpensively as possible. Still not sure what unit to get for the front but do know that I want DI up front rather than the 2D. I really should not have posted this here as I

was

just venting some frustration with the lack of communication from Johnson Outdoors. You can't make an informed decision without information. I for one cannot afford to buy one of everything that they produce so if they are putting out products designed to network and be co-dependent they should let us know what's in the works.

PS. Still looking for a good used bow unit with networking. If you have one for sale, send me a PM. Thanks

Check out bass boat central for a good used unit. BBC Boards and scroll all the way to the bottom of the forums to electronics.

May I make a possible solution to your transducer problem. If you look at Podunk Ideas . He is a member here at CDCand a few other boards. He makes some of the finest transducer mounts I have ever used.I bought his SS model, ground out the holes, too use 3/4 steel electrical conduit. Used a iron pipe elbow with a section going down into the water. Flatten it out at the bottom, drilled and mounted transducer. Just this year I bought one of his other mounts that works like a T/M mount. It has a plate on top for you to mount a GPS antenna to it. I want my GPS on top of my transducer. If you like send me a PM and I'll find the picks of the original set up, and my new one now. I will tell you this, his equipment is not cheap but I can tell you that the quality is professionally designed and built. It's not junk from China.

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I understand your frustration. I have the new Ulterra with DI. I am saving now for a Helix 7 with no transducer. Cost is 550 New.

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This is why I do not upgrade till something breaks/ wear s out . They would sell more in the long run if they followed your advice . The business world does not Align profit/loss numbers to the Average person's salary , that is why you have folks making minimum wages buying 2500.00 trolling motors .

I think many of us are caught in similar situations whether it be fishing related or other products. Companies are tight lipped about new products because it is a very competitive market. I am fairly certain most companies aren't withholding information about releasing new products to mislead consumers. It is more likely to keep a step ahead of competitors. Humminbird generally releases new models every two years; sometimes at ICAST and more often late in the year in recent models. MinnKota released their new Bluetooth TMs at ICAST. One clue, at least related to the HBs, is you will start seeing prices reduced at retailers to clear shelves before new models.

When I just purchased my Latest Ulltera I-Pilot Link I went with refurbed because I did not want the DI transducer and saved about $700.

Definately looking at Podunk's mounts. I need to get away from my current setup and definately appreciate the input. I have about 5 yrs before I retire and would like to havemy rig set up the way I want before I do. I can replace things as needed(key word there). I feel I'm set up pretty well or at least will be when I get my bow unit bought and networked. Biggest hurdle I have is where to relocate for retirement. I'm too far away from water for my liking. Thanks to all who responded to this rant. Believe me it's not something I do very often outside of politics lol.

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Originally Posted by JD1

Biggest hurdle I have is where to relocate for retirement.

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Now that sounds like a good problem to have!!!