Video - KDFWR - Asian Carp in KY and Barkley Lakes - impacts to crappie and bass

This is a great video with a lot of information about Asian Carp and a lot of data collected over the years gauging the impacts of Asian Carp in Kentucky and Barkley Lakes. This presentation was made a few weeks ago at the West KY Boat and Outdoor Show in Murray KY by Adam Martin, Fisheries Biologist and primary contact for the KDFWR Western Fishery District. I encourage anyone who fishes these lakes to watch and become familiar with the issues, and help spread the word. There is a lot of misinformation and rumors out there that this video addresses and helps clear up.

Description from YouTube for the video:
Asian Carp began appearing in Kentucky Lake and Lake Barkley in 2004, but public awareness skyrocketed in 2017 when anglers began noticing skinny fish in Kentucky Lake. In this public presentation, Adam Martin, western district fisheries biologist for Kentucky Fish & Wildlife, discusses the impacts of Asian carp and offers a brief introduction into the incredibly complex interactions between plankton, fish, and related environmental conditions. There are reasons to be hopeful about the future of the fisheries in these lakes, but we have a lot of work left to do in the war on carp.


https://youtu.be/kZoo08Ztrjo

Many of us on here were there. Adam did a good job in presenting this.

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Originally Posted by kylakelover

Many of us on here were there. Adam did a good job in presenting this.

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I couldn't make it to that particular presentation, so I begged KDFWR to record it and share it, and they did! Hopefully this video sheds some light on the subject for many like myself who couldn't make it, as well as those who haven't heard a lot of this info before.

Very glad we've got Adam working for us at KDFWR!

Very informative... thanks for sharing

Thanks for the link. I viewed the whole thing and learned, confirmed a few things:
(The Crappie, Bluegill, Shad and Asian Carp eat the Plankton in the lakes) +
1.In the earlier part of the presentation, got tired of the comments, 'effects are complicated, we are trying to understand the impact' concerning the Asian Carp.
2. Bass catch creel survey, 0K, < 1 bass/hour fishing, I guess this is good.
3. Recent Crappie creel survey for KY lake, 'Incredible'. I guess this looks good for the crappie guides this year, Limits every day.
4. Fishing rate on the lake, hours per fisherman on the lake is down due to the supposed Asian Carp problems.
5. Dam Barrier at Barkley, but not currently planned for KY lake dam. I guess no Asian Carp come thru the KY Dam lock.
6. There was an Asian Carp spawn in 2015.
7. 'We have no idea of how many pounds of Asian Carp need to be removed at this time to reduce the numbers'
8. Asian Carp DO spawn in the lake, but at an estimated rate of <1% of 2 million eggs produced. (at 0.5%, the spawn rate would be 1000 per fish),this is not good
even at the 0.5% rate or whatever they will actually measure.
9. Our Fish and Wildlife do not collect data on Bass fishing tournaments. So, they have no idea if they have seen recent declines.
10. Our KY fish and Wildlife have determined that stocking of Crappie or Bass in the lakes is ineffective.

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Originally Posted by perchjerker108

5. Dam Barrier at Barkley, but not currently planned for KY lake dam. I guess no Asian Carp come thru the KY Dam lock.

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This topic was covered in another seminar and has lots of published data about it available at the KDFWR website page dedicated to Asian Carp. The dam barrier is in a 3 year trial test to prove it's effectiveness in a partnership with the USFWS, Corps of Engineers, and other agencies. It is unclear at this point whether it is an effective method below such a large structure, near a high traffic area for barges, in an area subjected to large water elevation swings, and worthy of the expense and maintenance - the 3 year test will determine this. If the test proves successful, then more barriers will be installed all across the country in areas where they would be effective, including KY Dam. As of right now, KDFWR can't just go blowing money and installing these BAFF systems everywhere without solid data proving their effectiveness in areas similar in nature.

I would encourage you and everyone interested to visit the KDFWR carp page, as well as the link to the BAFF system information:

Kentucky Department of Fish & Wildlife
Asian Carp Information

https://kentucky.gov/Pages/Activity-...dlife&prId=256

Fish Guidance Systems Ltd

http://www.fish-guide.com/pdf/BAFF%2...eek,%20USA.pdf

Thanks for watching, I know it was very long.
Since I’m on here, I’ll offer a little clarification

1. Correct. It’s complicated. Along with those fish you mentioned, lots of other species and aquatic invertebrates (mussels,bugs, etc) all consume plankton. Each with their own timing and preferences for certain sizes and types of plankton.
2. Correct. This number is based on all anglers who said they were targeting bass. A good angler will obviously beat this average.
3. Mostly correct. The most recent data on ky lake is from 2017. Many of those fish will be gone from the system due to natural and fishing mortality. Crappie are short lived. However, recent reports from Barkley have been good and the 2018 spawn looked decent. 2019 has all the hallmarks of a good spawn, but it’s all about the weather in April/May. I doubt the weathermen have even decided about tomorrow.
4. Mostly correct. The long term trend has not really changed. We observed a steady decline after the year 2000. Carp aren’t helping though
5. Kind of. A barrier isn’t currently planned at ky dam because there aren’t any currently planned anywhere. We don’t know if it works yet. KDFWR has obviously noted that the lakes are connected. If it works, KY dam will likely be next. The canal is also a possibility if AC find suitable spawning conditions in the upper TN river but not the Cumberland, or vice versa. The more disconnected the populations are nationwide, the likelier it is that we can create carp free zones.
6. Correct. There was a spawn in 2015, but not necessarily in the lakes. The evidence supports the idea that they spawned in the lakes, but does not prove it. I personally think a lake spawn occurred, but I try to deal in facts rather than assumptions.
7. Correct. We have an ongoing study to determine total population size in the lakes. The Illinois River is the only system I’m aware of that has an estimate of population size and it makes a lot of assumptions. We do know we want to remove as many as we can and our current harvest goals are higher than ever.
8. Not quite correct. We do not know for certain if they have spawned in the lakes. We do not know the survival rate of offspring. No one does. During good conditions it could be quite high. We know they try to spawn in the lakes every year, but no offspring are observed. Presumably in poor conditions survival is zero percent.
9. We do collect data, but it is not required for small tournaments so a lot of the data isn’t given to is. I think last year I got data on about 30 tournaments. (Hardly an exhaustive list of our tournaments) We are looking at ways to address this. We do monitor tournament anglers through the creel survey, so their catch rates are included in the estimates and major tournaments are required to report. I would love to have a report of every fish ever caught in the lakes (deer managers have it so easy), but I also don’t want the reporting process to be too much of a burden on anglers.
10. Correct. It wouldn’t make a dent. We are trying to improve spawning habitat, but results remain to be seen and we will still need the right environmental conditions.

Please let me know if you have other questions. I posted it online to keep people informed but I’m sure I missed a few topics.

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Originally Posted by perchjerker108

Thanks for the link. I viewed the whole thing and learned, confirmed a few things:
(The Crappie, Bluegill, Shad and Asian Carp eat the Plankton in the lakes) +
1.In the earlier part of the presentation, got tired of the comments, 'effects are complicated, we are trying to understand the impact' concerning the Asian Carp.
2. Bass catch creel survey, 0K, < 1 bass/hour fishing, I guess this is good.
3. Recent Crappie creel survey for KY lake, 'Incredible'. I guess this looks good for the crappie guides this year, Limits every day.
4. Fishing rate on the lake, hours per fisherman on the lake is down due to the supposed Asian Carp problems.
5. Dam Barrier at Barkley, but not currently planned for KY lake dam. I guess no Asian Carp come thru the KY Dam lock.
6. There was an Asian Carp spawn in 2015.
7. 'We have no idea of how many pounds of Asian Carp need to be removed at this time to reduce the numbers'
8. Asian Carp DO spawn in the lake, but at an estimated rate of <1% of 2 million eggs produced. (at 0.5%, the spawn rate would be 1000 per fish),this is not good
even at the 0.5% rate or whatever they will actually measure.
9. Our Fish and Wildlife do not collect data on Bass fishing tournaments. So, they have no idea if they have seen recent declines.
10. Our KY fish and Wildlife have determined that stocking of Crappie or Bass in the lakes is ineffective.

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Amartinbio, Many thanks for the clarification on some of the points I gleaned from one of the most impressive presentations I've seen on the Asian Carp problem. Yep, I thought I heard that the spawn rate was <1%, not 0%. So this is good of they never spawn. The barriers(if affective) and commercial fishing should eventually take care of these.

Thanks Adam for the presentation and for getting the video out there. Hopefully people take the time to watch it and gain a little more understanding of what is going on. Nobody can predict the future but amazing to me how quick people have been to write off our lakes as dead considering how great the fishing was in 2015-2017.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

Maybe people writing the lakes off for a while is a good thing. The way we get slammed with bass tournaments at Paris Landing every weekend we could use a little break.

Asian carp are just my scapegoat for being a terrible fisherman haha. [emoji16]

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Crappie.com Fishing mobile app

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Originally Posted by pab1981

T...amazing to me how quick people have been to write off our lakes as dead considering how great the fishing was in 2015-2017.

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Especially the bass guys! I keep telling them, those bass didn't just up and disappear into thin air, they are still in there, you just have to adapt and fish differently.

Just kinda wish we had a measurement of the BIOMASS that I see listed for other lakes/rivers with these carp. I have seen numbers up to 65%. I guess this means of all the fish, the carp represent 65% of the 'Mass' of the fish present(not numbers of fish). If not, I admit, I don't know what this measurement is. I would think this would be a good gage of how bad or good the 'BIOMASS' is in the KY/Barkley lakes if the 'BIOMASS' number shows the ratio of Carp to ALL the other fish in the lake. Just would be good to know the if the lakes have a large 'Mass' or not at this time.

Ok, did not get any replies, so did more investigation of the what I feel is the real measurement of the Carp invasion. The Biomass looks like the way to go. It seems to let you really know the mass of Carp in the lake versus all the other fish. So, all we need now is the Biomass data for the past few years on KY/Barkley lakes to see how we are doing. Looks like the units of measure for this is kg/ha. Hopefully, we won't end up with the data I just found reported by the Great Lakes Commission that states: In some areas of the Mississippi River basin where these fish have steadily taken over, they now comprise up to 97% of fish biomass.

The measure of biomass ratios are telling, but not the whole story. The numbers that are reported on the Mississippi and Illinois Rivers are in places where surveys (primarily electrofishing) have occurred over many years. In doing so (assuming you measure length/mass of all the fish you catch), you can simply add up the mass of the native fish vs the AC and come up with a ratio. You can imagine the pile of native fish getting smaller relative to the pile of invasive carp. It is important to note that the ratio will shift even if the pile of native fish stays the same size as long as the AC pile grows.

On Kentucky Lake there have been several surveys that have run for more than 25 years (See KDFWR data in the video), but these surveys are optimized to sample crappies (trapnets) or bass (electrofishing runs) or catfish (trotline) etc. These surveys are not optimized and/or target carp (although some have started in recent years). I know that the state has electrofished below KYdam for many years and I'd bet that they would show a similar trend to the #s stated above (still doesn't tell us much about conditions above the dam).

Getting an estimate of biomass on KYlake that is accurate is extremely difficult. Will require good estimates of fish length/biomass from many locations (and probably across many seasons/years). <---if only this were easy. To get this ratio on KYLake you'd need a sampling method that is as equally good at catching AC, crappies, bass (all kinds), shad, catfish etc. in all habitats at multiple times of year. If all employees working for KDFWR in all districts dropped what they were doing and devoted a year or two to this I'd guess they could provide us with a pretty decent ratio.

h2Obugz, many thanks for the information on the 'Biomass' measurements problem. Did not realize how difficult it was for our state to do this measurement. Looks like it's not feasible. I think the lakes are now OK, but was hoping for some measurement to see if it's getting better or worse going forward with the Biomass ratio data. I guess the visiting fishermen will help us decide this(Carp volume impact) in the coming years.

Great information at this new link showing current price per pound for Asian Carp: Kentucky Fish Center | KDFWR

The subsidies recently put into place now have the price up to $0.15/lb for silver carp if the processor picks them up at the boat ramp. The price per pound is a little higher if the fishermen offload at Wickliffe or Eddyville.


The Kentucky Fish Center, an Asian Carp fish market, opened for business in January. Also known as the KFC, the main purpose of this privately owned entity is to provide a constant buyer of Asian carp from commercial fishermen in Kentucky at a guaranteed price.

The KFC is the culmination of years of effort by Kentucky Fish and Wildlife to partner with private businesses to help bolster the commercial market for Asian carp.

Currently, the mass removal of Asian carp through commercial harvest is our best line of defense to keep Asian carp from spreading.In 2018, commercial fishermen harvested more than 2.5 million pounds of Asian carp from KY waters.

In the first month of operation alone, the KFC facilitated the purchase and sale of 343,846 pounds of Asian carp (there are also other markets buying Asian carp from Kentucky fishermen). The goal for the first year of operation is for the KFC to facilitate the removal of 3 million pounds of Asian carp from Kentucky and Barkley lakes, and another 2 million pounds from other public waterways in Kentucky

Attachment 331211

Make note of the size of those silver carp in that picture, they are all about the same size indicating that they were all the result of the same spawn, probably the one that happened in the lake in 2015 when the current was strong enough to provide suitable conditions for a successful spawn.

What's the average weight of those fish pictured? Ten or fifteen pounds??

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Originally Posted by redearhoosier

What's the average weight of those fish pictured? Ten or fifteen pounds??

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I would guess somewhere pretty close to 5 or 6 pounds, as that's been the average size of the ones that have been jumping in my boat. They look big from a side view, but are fairly thin and weigh less than what you might think when you actually hold one.

artcarney, thanks for the link to the prices and other info. My wish is the commercial fisherman can get more than $0.15 per pound. A lot of work for 1,000 lbs of fish for $150. Maybe the State could add at least a $0.05-$0.10 per pound subsidy to the 'Current' price to help us remove these and help the commercial fisherman with their costs for our Lakes/Rivers. These commercial are the best chance right now to help us with the problem.

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Originally Posted by perchjerker108

artcarney, thanks for the link to the prices and other info. My wish is the commercial fisherman can get more than $0.15 per pound. A lot of work for 1,000 lbs of fish for $150. Maybe the State could add at least a $0.05-$0.10 per pound subsidy to the 'Current' price to help us remove these and help the commercial fisherman with their costs for our Lakes/Rivers. These commercial are the best chance right now to help us with the problem.

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The state is already chipping in I think $0.10 or $0.12 a pound now - well it might be a combination of the State and KDFWR or it may just be KDFWR solely doing it, I haven't heard exactly where that money is coming from.

I did ask about a weekend warrior program for people (like myself) who might want to do it a little bit on the side to make some extra cash and what license would be needed. Here's what they said:

...if you are a resident of KY and you wanted to net Asian carp you could buy the $150 commercial license and be legal. There is also a free commercial license that KDFWR offers to fishermen who only target and harvest Asian carp. If you use the free license, you still need to purchase gear tags. Gear tags are required on every 100ft of net, so how long your nets are will determine how many gear tags you need (you can purchase more than the first 10 you receive with your license). If you buy the $150 license you can also harvest rough fish including buffalo, common carp, and drum, but not catfish, paddlefish, or sturgeon. However, Asian carp must account for at least 65% of your total catch every month.

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Originally Posted by artcarney_agr

The state is already chipping in I think $0.10 or $0.12 a pound now - well it might be a combination of the State and KDFWR or it may just be KDFWR solely doing it, I haven't heard exactly where that money is coming from.

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Artcarny, so, if the current price is $0.15/pound, the State or KDFWR is adding $010 or $0.12/ pound to their paycheck above the $0.15 pound current price? Example would be: Current market price is $0.15/pound + $0.10/pound subsidy from State or KDFWR would result in them getting $0.25/pound. If this is the case, this is great!

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Originally Posted by perchjerker108

Artcarny, so, if the current price is $0.15/pound, the State or KDFWR is adding $010 or $0.12/ pound to their paycheck above the $0.15 pound current price? Example would be: Current market price is $0.15/pound + $0.10/pound subsidy from State or KDFWR would result in them getting $0.25/pound. If this is the case, this is great!

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No. The fish is only worth about $0.03/lb and KDFWR and or the State are chipping in the other $0.12/lb

When they say there is little market for these fish, it's an understatement. A year ago when all a commercial fisherman could get was $0.07/lb it wasn't at all worth the effort....the increased subsidies this year have helped change that some.

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Originally Posted by artcarney_agr

No. The fish is only worth about $0.03/lb and KDFWR and or the State are chipping in the other $0.12/lb

When they say there is little market for these fish, it's an understatement. A year ago when all a commercial fisherman could get was $0.07/lb it wasn't at all worth the effort....the increased subsidies this year have helped change that some.

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Arcarny, again, thanks for the info. Man, this really upsets me and should upset everyone at this site who wants to help the commercial fisherman to help with this problem. I read so much about how 'good' the fish are to eat and has a good market. But, man at $0.03/0.07pound actual worth(without our help with subsidy), it's cat food or fertilizer per the processor's rated value of worth at $0.03 or $0.07/pound. Just glad the commercial fisherman will attempt to remove these at the subsidized price of $0.15/pound. Still, I think of these commercial fishrman setting out piles of nets, going to each net, pulling/untanglng each fish, hauling in a ton of fish, and then getting $300 for their effort. So, to all the commercial fisherman removing the Carp, I admire you efforts for basically no real pay for your efforts.

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Originally Posted by perchjerker108

Arcarny, again, thanks for the info. Man, this really upsets me and should upset everyone at this site who wants to help the commercial fisherman to help with this problem. I read so much about how 'good' the fish are to eat and has a good market. But, man at $0.03/0.07pound actual worth(without our help with subsidy), it's cat food or fertilizer per the processor's rated value of worth at $0.03 or $0.07/pound. Just glad the commercial fisherman will attempt to remove these at the subsidized price of $0.15/pound. Still, I think of these commercial fishrman setting out piles of nets, going to each net, pulling/untanglng each fish, hauling in a ton of fish, and then getting $300 for their effort. So, to all the commercial fisherman removing the Carp, I admire you efforts for basically no real pay for your efforts.

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Yes, a HUGE thanks to the guys out there hauling this fish in! Asian Carp smell absolutely awful! Anytime I have one jump in the boat, it takes forever for the smell to finally disappear. Those guys have my respect just in dealing with the smell alone!

Market price has always been about $0.03 / lb

When I said $0.07 /lb last year, that was $0.03 market + $0.04 subsidy from KDFWR

The subsidy amount went up for this year to $0.03 market + $0.12 total subsidy from KDFWR/and or the State

The Asian Carp is only good for fillets or human consumption when extremely fresh, that's why it's important for them to be iced down immediately. This is also why it was so critical for fishermen to have their catch picked up at the ramp at either KY or Barkley Lake, because prior to that service it was VERY difficult to get the fish to Wickliffe before they started quickly degrading, especially in the summer months.

The majority of the edible carp that don't make the cut for fillets are ground into fish paste called surimi. The most common use of surimi is imitation crab meat. Asian Carp give surimi a little bit different/better flavor, and is highly desired overseas. Now when I say highly desired, that doesn't necessarily mean it's a delicacy or fetching a high price because of demand, it's more on par with like a highly desired cheap hotdog or like being the best tasting packet of Ramen Noodles. I enjoy eating surimi, makes for a nice protein snack in my lunch every now and then, but I'm definitely not going to spend a great deal on it or go out of my way to get it. The snack packs of surimi are $1 each at Walmart, sometimes on sale for $0.50 a pack.

As for the rest of the catch, it's mostly turned into fertilizer or any other number of products. I saw something the other day where Asian Carp byproducts were somehow being incorporated into concrete mixes. Lobster and crab fishermen in Canada are apparently looking to start using Asian Carp as bait for traps since they are having a hard time getting herring, those carp will have to be transported alive to the fishermen in order to still be fresh enough for use as bait.

It's really amazing all the things that are happening right now with these Asian Carp.

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Originally Posted by artcarney_agr

I did ask about a weekend warrior program for people (like myself) who might want to do it a little bit on the side to make some extra cash and what license would be needed. Here's what they said:

...if you are a resident of KY and you wanted to net Asian carp you could buy the $150 commercial license and be legal. There is also a free commercial license that KDFWR offers to fishermen who only target and harvest Asian carp. If you use the free license, you still need to purchase gear tags. Gear tags are required on every 100ft of net, so how long your nets are will determine how many gear tags you need (you can purchase more than the first 10 you receive with your license). If you buy the $150 license you can also harvest rough fish including buffalo, common carp, and drum, but not catfish, paddlefish, or sturgeon. However, Asian carp must account for at least 65% of your total catch every month.

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Lots of great info here. Man, if I come down and donate a day or two every now and then to help you run the nets do I need any special license?


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Originally Posted by GREENFISH

Lots of great info here. Man, if I come down and donate a day or two every now and then to help you run the nets do I need any special license?


Sent from my iPhone using Crappie.com

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I'm not really sure how that works for "helpers"

Apparently KDFWR will take you out as a volunteer to see what commercial fishing is like for Asian Carp, I was given this message this morning when I asked about hoop nets and any available training programs:

Currently we do not have a program to train new commercial fishermen, but we welcome volunteers to go out in the field with us to see what it is like. If you are interested in this opportunity give us a call at 270-759-5295. Some fishermen use hoop nets in the rivers, but in the lakes gill nets seem to be the best option.

This event was just announced.....................


Carp-crete Pouring

Feb 26th Tuesday at 1:00pm Central Time at HU-b's Offshore Boat Sales and Service in Eddyville, KY. address - 59 Funway Drive, Eddyville - will be poured around in back parking lot. Look for the large blue buildings! In front of the Venture River Water Park.

This will be the first ever to be poured in Kentucky and maybe a beginning of this product to be used in other places. If so, hopefully it will increase the use of Carp and increase the price for our commercial fishermen.

Hope to see people show up at this event. We will be testing this over the coming weeks for strength. After pouring - people will be able to come and see the concrete and walk on it.

http://abovegradeenvironmental.com/product/