Poured first heads today, need some advice

I bought a used Lee Pro 4-20 from a member here. It was shipped with a pot still full of lead. When I got it I tested it out and decided to clean it out. When the lead became molten I started stirring it and it had what appeared to be red dirt clumping up around the edge. I cleaned all that out. I got the lead as clean as possible. Today when getting ready to make jig heads I turned the pot back on. When the lead got hot a gold colored film covered the top of the molten lead. Is that tin? I took some wax and put in the lead, because I’d seen that on a video. Supposed to be “flux” The was melted, then ignited and I stirred the lead. When I got finished stirring the lead, it looked like it had wood ashes on top. I scooped them off. What is that stuff?

So on to pouring jigs. I started with 1/8 ounce since I’d read that smaller was harder to pour. I heated up the molds and smoked the insides up. The 1/8 seemed pretty easy to pour. I made 100 of them and moved down to the 16-32 mold. I smoked the inside and heated it up good. The first 4 pours on that mold were flawless. Then the wheels ran off. I didn’t pour another good 1/32 ounce jig for 15-20 minutes. I tried pouring lead on the sides of the mold to heat it up hotter, I tried smoking the inside again, I tried heating the lead with a higher setting and then tried cooling the lead down. It seemed nothing helped.

I seemed to to notice that the lead wasn’t flowing from the spout on the pot as good as I thought it should. Instead of a flowing stream out it was more
like a rapid machine gun fast drip. I think that may have been the problem. So is there something you can add to the lead to make it pour better or am I doing something wrong?

if you could get yourself some other lead to compare
may give you an answer if there's contamination
for there could be some incompatibility in mixed metals your dealing with

billygee

I had the exact same problem ! I started out using bullet weights (Not knowing any better) that had been melted slagged and fluxed flowed good for a while and then the spout started getting clogged had a fellow give me some pure lead from where he used to make decoy weights once I got the pure stuff flowing no more troubles!

Get you a 6 in piece of stainless wire abou .026- .032. Bend about 2 inches over into almost a L. Using a good pair of pliers grasp the longer part of the wire. Start the tip of the short section into the spout, lift the handle and work that wire up into the spout. That should clear it for a bit. You need to get something to pour ingots into that are a size that will fit back into pot. Pour out all the existing lead. Then scrape and clean the pot really good. And if you can find one a small round wire brush to clean the por spout. You will need to remove stem that is the stopper for pour spot and clean tip good on wire brush. Then remedy your lead. Almost every time you flux you will get a little residue on the surface. I use a old bent table spoon to clean it off. Almost impossible to find pure clean lead.

Sorry I am of no help in pouring as I never got into that, but feel sure some of these guys can get you On track!

Good luck!

Skip

Thanks for the info guys.

Related to getting good lead.... Maybe I'm confused about part of the process of taking dirty lead and cleaning it, but how does adding wax to the lead, which just melts, pools and burns do anything to make the lead more pure, or does it do something else?

I can’t really explain the chemical process, but when you get lead melted it is the heaviest, when you flux the idea is wax or what ever you use gets hotter than your melting pot can. Thus it helps separate impurities from the lead. That is the scum you find after fluxing. The best way is to flux a big batch in a big pot over a hot fire like a fish cooker to get it hot as you can. Some of the guys that cast bullets and large weights do that and add scrap wood to it to flux. Ideally you would do this process several times to get clean as possible. If you just have small amounts you can do just like you did in your pot with the wax. It’s a little slow process but worth the time in the long run. And no matter what you will always have a little bit of rust buildup in the pot so it pays to clean on a regular basis.

There is a difference between clean lead and pure lead. I buy clean 99.9% lead. I don't flux and only skim off what little contamination that comes to the top. I will add a little range lead for the antimony to harden the lead some. The range lead usually contains some tin to improve pour-ability. If not, add a little tin. I have a 20 lb pot and it stays full all the time. I never let it drop below 2/3 full. Lead should have an almost mirror like finish. I pour at around 700 to 750 degrees. Know your lead and know your temps.

Attachment 329065

I don't mind paying a little extra for pure clean lead and don't have the headaches that come with all the cleaning and fluxing. If you are going to be cleaning lead, don't do it in your production pot!

Being as I ran a foundry in the Navy I am somewhat more knowledgeable about this. And I have been pouring my own jigs
For some time now. First as stated I keep pot about 2/3rds full, I flux with a powder that the bullet guys use,also I spray my molds with a release that they use. I buy pure lead for about 20.00 bucks. As also stated I straightened out a hook and use that to keep my spout clean. Lead must have a good flow into the mold. I also lay my molds on top of my pot to heat up, during pouring they stay warm enough. I will be pouring about three hundred jigs this Sunday. Will take some pics of my operation.

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I use 96 to 99 % pure lead for 1/8 oz down. I use less quality lead only for the bigger stuff. When I get to 1.5 oz and up to my 14 oz sinkers for duck decoys I use all the garbage even down to wheel weights. All melted by separate methods. Only good lead in my good pot. I also like the hook method for the pour tip cleaning but every now and then the pot needs tore down and cleaned well as stated up above. I think the above posts should have you headed in the right direction. Good luck

"it had what appeared to be red dirt clumping up around the edge." that is rust
"a gold colored film covered the top of the molten lead. Is that tin?" no - the lead is almost too hot - blue sheen is too hot
"it looked like it had wood ashes on top. I scooped them off. What is that stuff?" slag - oxidized lead & impurities

"I’d read that smaller was harder to pour." it's all about technique
"I heated up the molds and smoked the insides up." I don't do this unless it's absolutely necessary - again it's about technique. I put the nozzle of the pot into the sprue of the mold. Eventually you get a rhythm on how long to leave the gate open.

Your problem might be temperature related - if you add lead, make sure your pot is hot before you resume pouring. Keeping the nozzle clean is very important , especially if you leave lead in the pot. When you reheat and the stem or sprue hole are dirty - stem won't seat properly - you will have REAL problems. Keep a drip catcher close by. You don't want the level higher then the heating coils in the pot.
I'd dump all the lead and start fresh. Look for X-Ray lead - lead bricks or lead sheets used for lining in X-Ray rooms. Majority of the lead I have is from de-commissioned labs.

Being as I owned a shop that poured, painted, and sold close to 5000 jigs per week (1/2oz or bigger) I "might" know a thing or two!

One thing I have never done is left lead in a pot to cool. The issue you described with the red residue was probably rust coming from the side of the pot. You will get that from time to time. I always had a good kitchen spoon to skim off the top of my lead. That gold color you got could be alloys melting off. When you get really soft lead (say 95% or higher in purity) you can burn it. Meaning the pot can get too hot. You will know it is happeneing when you start to get a whole lot of clumps on the surface.

As others have said, clean the spout. That dripping is allowing the lead to cool as it enters the mold. You want a nice smooth flow. If you find that you are having issues with the bottom pour, you might consider purchasing a laddle. I laddle poured the majority of my jigs while running two or three pots at a time.

A few things I have learned that might help you out.
Hard lead (wheel weights and bullet molds) cool quicker and have a less consistant pour. You can develope issues even though you are doing everything right.
Pure lead has a tendancy to tarnish after the head is poured if you don't use it right away. Not a huge deal if you are running solid colors but a big deal if using unpainted jigs for their brightness or colors that are see through (like candy).

Prepare all your lead long before you use it. I purchased my lead in bulk (300 to 1000lbs at a time). I would hang the block from my tractor bucket and use a propane weed torch to melt it into a cast iron skillet. From there I would dip it into my ingot molds. A cast iron muffin tin works great and will yeild approximately a 2lb puck.

Prepare HARD lead as well. I would get wheel weights from shops. Many of them are NOT lead anymore but you will still get them. I prepared 1lb and 1/2 pound ingots from my lee mold.

The recipe I found that worked the best for me was 15lbs of soft lead to 3 lbs of hard lead. This gave me a tempurature over 750 degrees, allowed for a nice even flow, reduced slag, produced a slightly harder head than soft lead, and reduced the head tarnish issues. Understand that I could pour 20lbs of lead into jigs in under 15 minutes so I was going through the lead. It didn't have time to sit long.

It is a learning process and finding the right recipe for you based on what you have access to is key. Some with "flow" better than others. Some will not clog up your bottom pour. You just have to find the right recipe!

Thanks for all the help guys. I really appreciate it. I never considered buying lead but I may have to, especially for the 32’s. Where is the cheapest place to buy good lead and what should I expect to pay per pound? I’m sure the more that I buy the cheaper it will get.

One more question, where does the rust in the lead come from? Is it from the pot?

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Originally Posted by FurFlyin

Thanks for all the help guys. I really appreciate it. I never considered buying lead but I may have to, especially for the 32’s. Where is the cheapest place to buy good lead and what should I expect to pay per pound? I’m sure the more that I buy the cheaper it will get.

One more question, where does the rust in the lead come from? Is it from the pot?

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Best place if you have one or more is check with your scrap yards. Most will have it sperated if they have any. If you know anyone that works for a power company sometimes they can get you scrap lead from institutions of high power ines. They use a lot of lead couplings that get damaged when installing. At scrap yard it will be market price which normally is less than you would pay someone else. I have resorted to eBay and gotten good soft lead.
Yes the rust or oxidation is from the pot itself. That’s the reason for a periodic cleaning.

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Originally Posted by Cray

Get you a 6 in piece of stainless wire abou .026- .032. Bend about 2 inches over into almost a L. Using a good pair of pliers grasp the longer part of the wire. Start the tip of the short section into the spout, lift the handle and work that wire up into the spout. That should clear it for a bit. You need to get something to pour ingots into that are a size that will fit back into pot. Pour out all the existing lead. Then scrape and clean the pot really good. And if you can find one a small round wire brush to clean the por spout. You will need to remove stem that is the stopper for pour spot and clean tip good on wire brush. Then remedy your lead. Almost every time you flux you will get a little residue on the surface. I use a old bent table spoon to clean it off. Almost impossible to find pure clean lead.

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Go to a welding supply store and get a set of gas torch tip cleaners,after you clean lead out of pot take tip cleaners and run into pour spour, the ridges in the cleaners will scrape it clean and make it pour better.I had the same problem with my pot from using wheel weights until I learned better

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I've got torch tip cleaners at the shop, I'll give those a try, thanks.

When I got the pot, I cleaned it. Really good. I got all the residue off the sides of the pot. I used a 60 grit flap wheel in a die grinder to get every speck of old lead and corrosion out of the pot. Once it was empty, I used a drill bit the size of the rod that opens and closes the spout and ran it down in the spout by hand to get the corrosion out of the spout. I wish I had asked the questions before I went to all that trouble because once I got it spotless, I put that same old lead back in the pot. LOL

I don't know anything about pouring, but if you know any contractors that work hospitals that's a great place to find great pure lead!

Skip

Skip I don't, but I can look. Thanks.

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Originally Posted by FurFlyin

Skip I don't, but I can look. Thanks.

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From time to time they have to re-do the X-Ray room lead I believe. So the old stuff is what your looking for and hoping for a good deal?

Skip

Dentists have lead from xray thingys. You know that thing you have to bite down on, they have a thin membrane on each one that gets put in a recycle bucket that they have to pay to have discarded. They generally are very happy to give to a free discard.

Oh, roofing company's have lead too that they want to get rid of. If it is from a tare off roof it is dirty. That is not hard to remedy though , just not in your pour pot. Happy searching.

Telephone repairman also have access to good lead from time to time.

Thanks for all the replies. Redge my dad was a telephone man. He said if I had all the lead he use to use, back in the day, I'd never need anymore for anything. He had a few pieces in the barn. Maybe 2 pounds worth.

I have about 500 lbs of telephone lead.
Thanks to a relative!
Another good source of clean lead, is the metallic cartridge black powder guys.

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Originally Posted by GrumpyLoomis

Dentists have lead from xray thingys. You know that thing you have to bite down on, they have a thin membrane on each one that gets put in a recycle bucket that they have to pay to have discarded. They generally are very happy to give to a free discard.

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My dentist saves all his for me. I keep it separate from everything else. Pours some pretty jigs.

A guy that I went to HS with is my dentist. I'll ask him if they use it. Their bite plate for their xrays aren't like the older style that I think one of you mentioned so I don't know if they'll have any or not.

These bricks weigh ~12kgs and they were recovered from a decommissioned lab
Attachment 329240

Sheets of lead on top of the paint cans are from a radio transmission site. Cans are wheel weight. The sheet of lead on the bottom is ~1/8" thick and is used in the walls of an X-Ray room and Bio-hoods. The yellow thing (~40lbs)came from X-Ray equipment.
Attachment 329241

More bricks. Very clean lead - real pain to break down.
Attachment 329242

My Favorite stuff to work with!
Attachment 329243

If all those suggestions don't work Do-It molds sell it but I don't know how much and what weight

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