So, just to clarify a little fishing myth...

Vertical fishing structure a few days ago I hung into what I knew couldn’t be a crappie even though the bite felt just like a crappie bite. After about 10 minutes of fighting, we finally saw what the culprit was that had caused all the commotion. As you can see in the picture, the fish was not foul hooked at all. It was perfectly hooked right in the side of the mouth just like any other biting fish. I have been told by many people that these Asians are not biting our lines but merely accidentally getting hooked when we are moving our bait through the area where they are filter feeding. I find that very hard to believe in this situation as I was almost 17 feet deep and three feet down into a large brushpile. This is not the first time this has happened to me but it is the first time I have been able to get a picture of it. I sure hope we can all work together to get these things under control before they ruin our fishery. Attachment 327821


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Hope u ate him!


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I'm with you.

Good job on landing the carp, down here, they just jump in my boat! P.S- they do eat good.

From my reading, they do not have a true stomach. With no stomach, they must feed continuously. They feed on both phytoplankton and zooplankton.

Therefore if they are ingesting baitfish, they do not have the capacity to digest them.

I don't think this clarified anything. LOL

As mentioned prior, these fish feed on plankton. They do feed by cruising with their mouth open. If they swim into a lure, they will likely be hooked in the mouth. Ive caught a couple myself.

Dr Speck, thanks for the post. Since most think they will not bite a bait, sad to say, but if they are that thick in the lake that someone could like you could find their mouth to get a hook set, they must be everywhere since they would have to run into the bait to get hooked! Hope this is not the case.

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Originally Posted by perchjerker108

.... but if they are that thick in the lake that someone could like you could find their mouth to get a hook set, they must be everywhere since they would have to run into the bait to get hooked! Hope this is not the case.

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That is most definitely the case. If you want to see it firsthand, I'm talking about the silvers here, take a bay on Barkley Lake right now, like Demumbers. Idle along the shore about 30 or 40 yards off of it, you'll eventually run into the mega school hanging out in that bay. Last time I did it, they were hanging near the back of the bay where the feeder creek comes in, they got to jumping by the hundreds. I had about a dozen in the boat within seconds of them getting startled by the engine, they didn't quit jumping until I turned the engine off. If a guy wanted to fill the boat, all he has to do is get them jumping like that, and then sit in the middle of the frenzy with the motor idling and they will just keep jumping into the boat. Last time I did that I only aimed to see one or two to show the kids, well they got hit by the fish coming into the boat and it greatly scared them and they have been upset about it ever since. They talk about it every time we get in the boat and won't let me go anywhere near the back of a bay now.

It's been my experience that you typically encounter the silvers jumping in 5 ft of water or less, if it's much deeper than that they seem to stay down....they won't always stay down in deeper water, but more times than not they do. I think when they get spooked their instinct is to dive down and when they hit bottom they come rocketing back up and out of the water, that's just my theory though.

The bighead, they don't jump, and there's a BUNCH of them. If you want to see the thousands of bighead, go out on the main lake on a flat calm day where the water is as smooth as glass. You'll see them swirling near the surface for as far as you can see. It's not uncommon to see their tails or fins coming out of the water like redfish in a shallow marsh. They will come by the boat, cruising/feeding just barely under the surface in big schools; you usually see the white of their mouths first. If you bump the trolling motor, all those fish will spook and make a massive swirl but they won't jump, bighead don't jump. The bighead have been in there for many years, but people don't realize it since they don't jump.

I believe mr dux has caught a couple in the mouth while pulling crankbaits on ky lake. I’ve seen videos of people targeting them with rod and reel and catching them in the mouth.


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guide from KY lake was at Let's go fishing show in collinsville IL and talked extensively about them, saying they are destroying the young fry of game species in sucking up the plankton. says they are very good to eat but all the federal fish control money is being sucked up by crooked politicians in IL and little going to ky or tn for controlling asian carp. real solution of course is market based as they are good to eat and so asian people love them. just need to make it viable for commercial operations to start netting them by the ton.

said you will catch them with jigs like that or cranks and they are fun to fight.

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Originally Posted by hdhntr

guide from KY lake was at Let's go fishing show in collinsville IL and talked extensively about them, saying they are destroying the young fry of game species in sucking up the plankton. says they are very good to eat but all the federal fish control money is being sucked up by crooked politicians in IL and little going to ky or tn for controlling asian carp. real solution of course is market based as they are good to eat and so asian people love them. just need to make it viable for commercial operations to start netting them by the ton.

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I don't know about Illinois, but there's been a LOT of good things come to fruition over the last few months in KY that have taken a very long time to get put in place. The new fish valet service and the ice house are two big items that were badly needed, as most commercial guys didn't want to pull carp from Kentucky and Barkley Lakes due to the amount of time required to get to the processor and the amount of ice needed to ensure the fish don't spoil on the way there on hot days. With the new fish valet, commercial guys can now simply offload at the ramp, significantly cutting down their expenses. The additional subsidies to get the market price up are a HUGE help as well as without it, it was far more work and expense for very little pay causing commercial guys to stick with other species with a higher price per pound.

It's my understanding that the new BAFF (Bio Acoustic Fish Fence) could lead to a viable management program. It's to be installed and undergo a 3 year test to see if it works, if results are favorable the BAFF will be installed at many other locations across the country. If the BAFF works, it will contain the carp below the dam by preventing them from entering the lock. By having that blockage in place, and then continuing the commercial fishing in the lakes, the asian carp population could be reduced down to a more manageable level.

Great article on the fish house, ice house, and the plan to get the asian carp harvest up over the next few years: New Kentucky program to combat Asian carp begins


KDFWR has been tackling the problem very hard for many years with whatever limited resources they've had. When people say that KDFWR has sat on their hands, it couldn't be further from the truth. Now that the public is finally taking notice, the money if finally starting to flow towards fighting the carp. If only people would have listened 10 years ago and been as passionate about the problem as they are now, things would be a lot different at this point in time.

I don't know why people keep calling Asian Carp a delicacy, because it's not. It's primary use is in imitation crab meat, called surimi. The meat is ground up and turned into a paste. I don't know if you've ever bought any imitation crab meat, but it's cheap...hence the problem. You can go to Walmart and grab a snack stick pack for $1; I often pick up a few for my lunch, very good to eat but certainly NOT a delicacy. You can also order various upscale gourmet Asian Carp products from the west ky processor through their website, but in looking at the prices I honestly don't know anyone willing to pay those kinds of prices for carp...again, therein lies a problem. It's not a highly desired product, but a market does exist for it. The byproducts (skin, bones, guts, etc.) all go to fertilizer production.

Online shop to buy Asian Carp products from the Paducah processor: Products – Fin Gourmet Foods

Surimi Snack Sticks available at Walmart:
http://trans-ocean.com/wp-content/up...ct-headers.jpg

If you guys happen to be Facebook people, I would highly encourage you all to "like" these two pages to stay up to date on the Asian Carp progress in Kentucky. It's a huge a problem, but there is hope with the great people involved!

KDFWR Western Kentucky District Fisheries: Western Kentucky Fisheries - Home | Facebook

War on Carp (ran by Wade White, Lyon Co. Judge Executive): War On Carp - Home | Facebook

Don’t know either way if they are intentional bites or not but I will say we caught a huge one pulling crankbaits for walleyes a couple of years back. Husky jerk was completely in its mouth. We were running 2.3mph at the time.


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I saw this video on YouTube thought I’d like to try them
YouTube


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by artcarney_agr

I don't know about Illinois, but there's been a LOT of good things come to fruition over the last few months in KY that have taken a very long time to get put in place. The new fish valet service and the ice house are two big items that were badly needed, as most commercial guys didn't want to pull carp from Kentucky and Barkley Lakes due to the amount of time required to get to the processor and the amount of ice needed to ensure the fish don't spoil on the way there on hot days. With the new fish valet, commercial guys can now simply offload at the ramp, significantly cutting down their expenses. The additional subsidies to get the market price up are a HUGE help as well as without it, it was far more work and expense for very little pay causing commercial guys to stick with other species with a higher price per pound.

It's my understanding that the new BAFF (Bio Acoustic Fish Fence) could lead to a viable management program. It's to be installed and undergo a 3 year test to see if it works, if results are favorable the BAFF will be installed at many other locations across the country. If the BAFF works, it will contain the carp below the dam by preventing them from entering the lock. By having that blockage in place, and then continuing the commercial fishing in the lakes, the asian carp population could be reduced down to a more manageable level.

Great article on the fish house, ice house, and the plan to get the asian carp harvest up over the next few years: New Kentucky program to combat Asian carp begins


KDFWR has been tackling the problem very hard for many years with whatever limited resources they've had. When people say that KDFWR has sat on their hands, it couldn't be further from the truth. Now that the public is finally taking notice, the money if finally starting to flow towards fighting the carp. If only people would have listened 10 years ago and been as passionate about the problem as they are now, things would be a lot different at this point in time.

I don't know why people keep calling Asian Carp a delicacy, because it's not. It's primary use is in imitation crab meat, called surimi. The meat is ground up and turned into a paste. I don't know if you've ever bought any imitation crab meat, but it's cheap...hence the problem. You can go to Walmart and grab a snack stick pack for $1; I often pick up a few for my lunch, very good to eat but certainly NOT a delicacy. You can also order various upscale gourmet Asian Carp products from the west ky processor through their website, but in looking at the prices I honestly don't know anyone willing to pay those kinds of prices for carp...again, therein lies a problem. It's not a highly desired product, but a market does exist for it. The byproducts (skin, bones, guts, etc.) all go to fertilizer production.

Online shop to buy Asian Carp products from the Paducah processor: Products – Fin Gourmet Foods

Surimi Snack Sticks available at Walmart:
http://trans-ocean.com/wp-content/up...ct-headers.jpg

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Hey Art, I thought you were from the Louisville area?? Did you move to Benton? I've known you a longtime from the fishin.com boards.

I'm a big redear guy and I can tell you that these Asian carp have hurt the redear fishing. I'm worried about this newer Black Carp, it has the potential to eat all of the snails in the lakes which would put the redears out of business.

Anyway, just thought I'd say hi because you gave me good tips about bluegill/redear years ago when I still lived in Jeffersonville before making my way down here to Kuttawa.

Regarding the Asian carp, I do think very serious and productive steps are finally being put in place to combat and get a handle on this unfortunate situation. I've seen out of state fishermen with large boats staying at local motels chasing these things...money talks and you know the rest of the story.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by redearhoosier

Hey Art, I thought you were from the Louisville area?? Did you move to Benton? I've known you a longtime from the fishin.com boards.

I'm a big redear guy and I can tell you that these Asian carp have hurt the redear fishing. I'm worried about this newer Black Carp, it has the potential to eat all of the snails in the lakes which would put the redears out of business.

Anyway, just thought I'd say hi because you gave me good tips about bluegill/redear years ago when I still lived in Jeffersonville before making my way down here to Kuttawa.

Regarding the Asian carp, I do think very serious and productive steps are finally being put in place to combat and get a handle on this unfortunate situation. I've seen out of state fishermen with large boats staying at local motels chasing these things...money talks and you know the rest of the story.

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I finally got to move back home a couple of years ago, it's been so nice not having to burn up the West KY Parkway like I used to!

Have you had much luck on the redear? I only tried twice for them last year and just never could hit it just right, I was doing so well with the bass that I just never could put the bass rod down. I believe the carp area definitely a factor but not solely responsible for the decline in fishing for some species, I think there's a combination of many things at play making the lakes fish a little tougher. For the redear, I feel like the lack of grass the last ten years has hurt them more than anything...back in 2006 and 2007 we had some great grass and the redear were plentiful, but it seems like it's been downhill since as the grass (for the most part) went away. As for the bass I believe there are still good numbers in there, they just have adapted to different habits - the stuff that has worked well for so many years it not working like it used to, the bass are suspended more and harder to catch. It's been pretty crazy the size and number of bass I've caught the last couple of summers trolling cranks, catching them suspended along the ledges.

I'm concerned about that black carp too, I was thinking it liked mussels more so than snails? Might be a good thing if they are gobbling up zebra mussels, but bad for all the declining mussel species KDFWR has been working so hard to restore. Very frustrating.

Mike58, thanks for the link to the YouTube video. Just looks like a lot of work to have 'fish balls'. I admire the lady in the video who went through all the trouble to get the fish baked, removed the bones and then made them into 'fish balls'. I probably don't have the patience to do this.
Redearhoosier. Man, I have a week scheduled with motel reservations in Mid May this coming year to specifically fish for Bluegill and Redear(Shellcrakers). I hope the Carp doesn't destroy my chances to be able to find and catch these. I guess I may have to move out into deeper waters to fish if the dang carp are in the shallow water during this. Don't want a pile of carp jumping in the boat while trying to catch fish in the shallow water bays

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Originally Posted by perchjerker108

I have a week scheduled with motel reservations in Mid May this coming year to specifically fish for Bluegill and Redear(Shellcrakers). I hope the Carp doesn't destroy my chances to be able to find and catch these. I guess I may have to move out into deeper waters to fish if the dang carp are in the shallow water during this. Don't want a pile of carp jumping in the boat while trying to catch fish in the shallow water bays

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You'll be fine. I fished shallow quite a bit last spring for bass and never had an issue. They only get to jumping if you really startle them, or have your big motor idling in shallow water.

Who knows, with this mild winter we might see another big die-off of the carp like we did in April of 2017.

artcarney_agr, Thanks, I was at KY lake in May of 2017 and saw several dead fish(Carp) in the back end of the coves near or on the bank. So I'm with you, hope we have another die-off this year. I truly hope the commercial fishing aspect (They get enough/$lb to make it profitable for them and the processors) will keep these guys on the KY/Barkley lakes for years to come to take these fish out until someone becomes smart enough to come up with something that will kill them without hurting the other fish. If not, these lakes will be hurt significantly for fishing, unless you like to snag carp.

I've been concerned about the Asian Carp for years and have voiced my opinion, most of the time to deaf ears. Nobody is happier to see the steps being taken to help the commercial fishermen make more $$ off their extremely hard labor. For whatever reason, the steps like the ice house and transfer stations is something that had been proposed for years. I guess the government moves at a snail's pace most of the time.

One thing that I can't get out of my mind is this: once all this $$ is spent to help the fishing industry, does anybody think they will try to work themselves out of a job? The Asian market for these carp is being served by a regional company that is growing yearly. Don't get me wrong, I'm tickled to see any efforts to get rid of the carp. I'm just concerned that once all the infrastructure is set in place, we will see numbers of the carp taken each year but the total eradication will never happen. Our lakes and rivers could possibly end up with a stable population that will feed the Asian demand for these fish. Could we possibly see the lakes being used as a big part of the supply chain? We provide the place to raise the fish while a huge part of the $$ being made off the carp goes to some multi-national companies that could care less about the effects of the carp on our fisheries.

Food for thought.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by M R Dux

I've been concerned about the Asian Carp for years and have voiced my opinion, most of the time to deaf ears. Nobody is happier to see the steps being taken to help the commercial fishermen make more $$ off their extremely hard labor. For whatever reason, the steps like the ice house and transfer stations is something that had been proposed for years. I guess the government moves at a snail's pace most of the time.

One thing that I can't get out of my mind is this: once all this $$ is spent to help the fishing industry, does anybody think they will try to work themselves out of a job? The Asian market for these carp is being served by a regional company that is growing yearly. Don't get me wrong, I'm tickled to see any efforts to get rid of the carp. I'm just concerned that once all the infrastructure is set in place, we will see numbers of the carp taken each year but the total eradication will never happen. Our lakes and rivers could possibly end up with a stable population that will feed the Asian demand for these fish. Could we possibly see the lakes being used as a big part of the supply chain? We provide the place to raise the fish while a huge part of the $$ being made off the carp goes to some multi-national companies that could care less about the effects of the carp on our fisheries.

Food for thought.

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It takes a lot of public interest to force things to happen....it's all about votes, sad but true. If the voting public cares enough about something, it will finally get attention. The Asian Carp just haven't received enough attention from the general public until recently when the silvers showed up in good numbers. The bighead have been in there since the 90s and I saw my first silver in KY Lake in 2007. KDFWR has been trying to make headway for many years, but it takes additional funding to get things done. Sadly once public opinion finally gains enough steam the problem is already out of hand.

I share the same worry as you, that a subsidized industry is being created that some people will rely on heavily for their livelihood. If a means of eradication is ever found, the choice to put it to use will see pushback from those making a living off of the invasive species.

I don't think the overseas demand is all that great, or we would see a higher price per pound without a needed subsidy. They are mainly going into surimi to give it a little better flavor, I have no idea how many people eat surimi overseas but I just can't see it being a major market, who knows though, maybe I'm wrong on that.

One thing I did read the other day is that the lobster industry is facing a bait shortage of herring. A study was recently completed to see if the Asian Carp could survive live transport to the northeast and Canada to be used as a substitute for herring. Just last month Canada approved Asian Carp for use as lobster bait. Asian Carp start rotting away so quickly, so they would have to be transported alive to Canada and then killed just before being cut into bait. The fact that they start rotting so quickly is why the ice house and valet service were so crucial in getting carp guys out on the lakes instead of the rivers closer to the processor. If the fish are too far gone, they can't be used for human consumption and go into fertilizer instead.

It's going to be interesting to see how it all plays out and continues to evolve. Last year we only had about 2 million pounds of Asian Carp harvested, the goal has been set to hit 20 million pounds per year by 2024. We've got processors in Wickliffe, Paducah, Mayfield, Ledbetter, and Hickman and all together they have the capacity to handle the processing goal. I never understood why Riverine Fisheries couldn't bring their processing boat from Hickman up to KY Lake, it's a 350' ship that's worked on the Bering Sea and has been converted over to process Asian Carp specifically.

http://www.riverinefi.com/wp-content...040333686.jpeg

Yeah, it was my understanding that the Asian market hinged on the fact that "our" Asian Carp TASTED better to them than the ones coming out of their heavily polluted waters.

And I, too, have thought about & voiced my concern that once established and profitable, the processing plants wouldn't want to "eradicate" their supply. The commercial fishing guys/gals would have to wait a few years for their preferred catch to rebound in size & numbers, once the Asian Carp were eradicated ... so they'd suffer in the interim.

To all, I'm kinda like all of you researching everything on these things. The Asian Carp are here to stay in KY and Barkley based on what I could find. The Commercial people will never be without a job unless there are thousands of them netting year round. I admire them, got to be a tough and nasty job for what has been very little money recently. Looks like the 'Asian Market' people want the fish alive. They will pay big bucks for 'Alive' fish, but this will not be possible as far a I know. Looks like the best thing we can do is get them from the lake to a processor ASAP and get them flash frozen for shipment. They will buy these but looks like it's about 10-15% of what you would get for 'Live' fish. If not frozen before they go bad, they are pretty much useless for sale. Looks like our KYDF&W people are spending time on the Commercial fishing boats to see how many (Non Asian Carp, bycatch) are caught in nets and seeing if something like a Largemouth Bass will still survive after being accidently caught in a net and released. There's got to be several other fish (non-rough) captured in all these nets. Hopefully, they get thrown back and survive.

Lots of good insight fellas


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by perchjerker108

Looks like our KYDF&W people are spending time on the Commercial fishing boats to see how many (Non Asian Carp, bycatch) are caught in nets and seeing if something like a Largemouth Bass will still survive after being accidently caught in a net and released. There's got to be several other fish (non-rough) captured in all these nets. Hopefully, they get thrown back and survive.

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You would enjoy reading the 2018 report. It covers exactly what you are talking about starting around page 37. Some species caught in the nets have a lower survival rate than others (like paddlefish for example, they have a very low survival rate).

https://fw.ky.gov/Fish/Documents/2018_CSI_APR.pdf

This page on KDFWR has a lot of great links and documents if you wish to learn more about the asian carp problem: Kentucky Department of Fish & Wildlife
Asian Carp Information

What Doug alluded to is perhaps the most interesting part of this whole story. I've thought about it as well and it stands to reason that once this becomes a profitable business, they won't want to kill the Golden Goose.

Of course if the Asians slap an extremely high demand on these fish, a good capitalist will certainly meet their demand!! It'll be interesting to see how it plays out. The commercial fishermen might find himself in a darned if you do, darned if you don't situation.

Readear, from what I got from MR's post is that the 'golden goose' will forever be at Ky and Barkley lakes. I think he, along will me, believe the Carp will be there from now on and the lakes will keep producing endless numbers year by year even with the commercial efforts. (Hopefully, we will have some bad weather to kill some off). If the commercial fisherman don't continue to knock down the numbers each year, the lakes will be 95% by volume, (my guess) Asian Carp. I'm guessing now it's at least 60-70% by volume/weight now with Carp. The Lakes (since the carp are now here) are the perfect breeding ground for millions of these fish which we have no idea how to irradiate or control at this time. So, hopefully, the price of the fish will truly be a 'golden goose incentive' to keep the commercial guys knocking down the numbers for the future of the lakes. From what I can tell, the Asian markets will take everything and more of what we can ship to them if we give them a good product.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by perchjerker108

The Lakes (since the carp are now here) are the perfect breeding ground for millions of these fish

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That is incorrect, they cannot spawn in the lake unless there is enough current to keep the eggs high enough in the water column to survive. I believe it's been a few years since we had a strong enough current during a spring flood that they were able to actually spawn in the lake.

As of right now, they spawn easily below the dam, and then are able to move upstream through the lock. If the Bio-Acoustic Fish Fence (BAFF) test proves successful, there is hope that the carp will be at least kept below the dam, then commercial fishing efforts in the lake will get rid of the majority remaining in the lake. The BAFF won't totally solve the problem, but will greatly reduce the numbers getting into the lake via the lock at the dam.

"An interagency team led by U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service and the Nashville District of the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, with support from the U.S. Geological Survey, University of Minnesota, U.S. Coast Guard, and the Kentucky Department of Fish and Wildlife Resources, is combining funding, technical expertise and staff to construct a research plan that should put the Fish Guidance System acoustic bubbler system below Barkley Dam....Testing will occur over a three-year period. Most likely, officials will remove the barrier system after the test...The research goals include determining the effectiveness of a sound barrier system at restricting or reducing movement of Asian carp through lock chambers; assessing the system’s resiliency; and determining the barrier’s effect on movement of native fish species through lock chambers. Information gathered from this research will be important to future tests at other dams in the Mississippi River and Ohio River basins. The potential importance of cost-effective, barrier deterrence systems cannot be overstated."

https://kentucky.gov/Pages/Activity-stream.aspx?n=FishandWildlife&prId=256

The BAFF was supposed to be installed this fall, but was postponed. I haven't heard what the rescheduled install date is.

I've bow shot a boat load of these things below the dams in the summer when the water is crystal clear. They will stage up stationary in a brush pile just like a predatory fish. Only difference is they're just sitting there opening and closing their mouths pumping water to feed just like always and letting the current pull the plankton for them.

To all, Yep, per Artcarney_agr. I'm probably incorrect on the idea that they will spawn in the actual lakes of KY/Barkley. I should have said that it's the Tenn/Cumberland river system. I guess in 2015(per the Tennessee people) a very successful 'spawn' of Silver's occurred. And according to them, this is the largest majority of the fish in their system. So, I'm sure these fish will have moved into our lakes since the population kinda exploded in 2017-2018 in the Lakes. Also read a research report from Purdue University on the Silver Carp. They say the Asian carp have 'Adapted' to their normal spawning requirements. (moving water) They have seen them spawn in basically no moving water conditions as long as they have the Plankton to eat. Looks like they eat 5-40% of their weight per day.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by trypman1

Good job on landing the carp, down here, they just jump in my boat! P.S- they do eat good.

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I was not impressed with the taste at Crankfest of the carp . We were late getting there and most fish do taste better hot . When we go I'll keep the catfish you can have all the carp lol . We can split the crappie down the middle 70/30 .:biggrin lol