Message for JamesDean

Eric,

After reading what you are looking for and looking to do, I think I found something that won't break the bank and will fit the bill for what you are wanting to do with it.

Although I do not own one, I have had the thought of building one ever since I had one in my hands about 5 years ago. A fellow Crappie Dot Com member had one built and was at a camp. I had the opportunity to put the rod in my hands and I really loved the action and feel of the rod. It was a 9ft rod built on a 4wt fly blank. Unfortunatley, they don't seem to make this exact model anymore however, you can get it in a 5 wt 9 foot model. I am specifically referring to the American Tackle Company "Matrix" fly rod blank series.

American Tackle Matrix Fly Rod Blanks

These blanks on "noodle rods" for the most part. They have a moderate fast action and a lot of whip!

For a slightly more expensive blank BUT a ligher in the hand model with a little faster action, I would suggest the MHX 9ft 4wt in a two piece model.
MHX F904-MHX Fly Rod Blank | mudhole.com

Two piece rods in longer lengths are getting harder and harder to find. Looking to the fly rod section is alway a great option for longer rods as you can still build them in to a great spinning rod.

These are just a few ideas. Now that you kind of have what you are looking for, go ahead and look through the catalogs and see if you can find a comparison. I like to compare "Actual Rod weights". The two above, although the same in length, and action are vastly different in terms of weight in the hand. Still much lighter than a traditional crappie rod that sometimes come in at pretty heavy weights.

COOL, Thank you for the help wicklundrh. I will definitely look at both of them. Thank you very much for the direction. Eric, AKA "jamesdean".

Just be aware that fly rod blanks are not set up with much mid-rod strength (or power, if that's what you want to call it). They tend to flex further down the rod than actions we normally need. Most crappie rods need a faster taper with more tip flex and less mid-rod flex.

Tom

Ok, thank you for the info. I have a fiberglass fly today now I tinker with...one day I may actually learn to use it...hahaha.

I have used fly rods for many years for pan fishing that you're great for vertical fishing I converted A regular flyrod Input smaller guides Such a spin cast type In we use regular monofilament line For probably over 20 years Thank you for the information I will take this under deep consideration In maybe build me another rod What' a fly rod blank.

I use pretty much the rod you are talking about and it is my favorite long rod. It is a 4 wt GLoomis fly blank which are unfortunately no longer available. I have a St Croix 5 wt fly rod that I use also. Instead of building it with a standard fly rod type reel seat I used half of a Tennessee grip for the rear grip and a 3” fore grip. With the length of rod you have to work with you can get creative with your decorative wrap. The Confederate flag wrap I did was on one of these.

I use to get some pretty good inexpensive fly rod blanks from CUI products out of Tulsa, Oklahoma but I have not ordered from them in a while and am not sure if they are still in business. CUI is a wholesale only distributor so a tax number will be required.

I built rods under the label “Cast Master Custom Rods” and is possible that some of you guys might have seen one. Even though I am retired I have retained the LLC and label name and still build the occasion rod.

Thank you for the informative post crappie wrangler. I will keep this all in mind. As far as cui goes, well I am just starting in the field of rod building for myself, and a tax I.D. number is out of the question. But thank you for the info. Eric, AKA "jamesdean".

Starting my second application of expanding glue in my reel seat. I pour it in slowly from the tip wiping off any excess from the reel seat as I apply.

Just curious as to why you did not use the tried and true method of building up arbors out of tape and epoxying the seat and handle?

Tom

About 35 years or so ago I figured out that tape works as a natural shock absorber between the rod blank and the reel seat. Using two graphite arbors on either end of the reel seat and the expanding glue to fill the void the maximum vibration transfer is achieved between the rod blank and the reel seat which was always the desired effect. I do not personally know of anyone else that glues the reel seat on this way. When I sold custom rods my clientele wanted the best money could buy so the 12 hours to glue a reel seat was not an issue. In the end having the best is far better than saving time and effort in my opinion.

I actually thought I posted the reel seat pic on my rod building post. My bad.

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About 35 years or so ago I figured out that tape works as a natural shock absorber between the rod blank and the reel seat. Using two graphite arbors on either end of the reel seat and the expanding glue to fill the void the maximum vibration transfer is achieved between the rod blank and the reel seat which was always the desired effect. I do not personally know of anyone else that glues the reel seat on this way. When I sold custom rods my clientele wanted the best money could buy so the 12 hours to glue a reel seat was not an issue. In the end having the best is far better than saving time and effort in my opinion.

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A great theory, but in my experience (and for a lot of rod builders) it really doesn't work like that for tape arbors. The tape merely acts as a "spacer" centering the seat on the blank. The seat is actually attached to the blank with the thickened epoxy mix. After the epoxy cures, the tape has no impact on "feel" at all. The thick epoxy carries the load and is responsible for transmitting "feel" from the blank to the handle/seat. Actually, if it were physically possible, the tape could even be removed at that point. This can easily be seen by anyone repairing rods and having to remove the seat. It isn't the tape holding the seat to the blank, it's the epoxy.

Tom

ok. You are right, I am wrong. I will solve the problem.

I learned a long time ago that their is more than one way to do things, so if it has worked in the past, and that is hiw he wants to do things and he is happy with the way things has worked before, do it how you want to do it. Always more than onee way to skin a rabbit....Thank you for showing us how you do it crappie wrangler.

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Originally Posted by crappie wrangler

ok. You are right, I am wrong. I will solve the problem.

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Great, never too late to learn. :rolleyes:

Tom

I must apologize as I did not respond well. I am without excuse.

I will make an attempt to explain my reasoning beyond the fact that I have glued reel seats on both ways in the past. I learned to use the expanding glue because of a physics course that was required. After the course I considered the way I was doing it beyond "that's the way I have always done it".

I tried to find an article on the transfer of vibrations between various mediums without my having to describe it myself but the best I could find was the transfer of sound waves thru solids, liquid, and gas or air if you prefer. Sound waves vibrate so we can apply the same science to the transfer of vibrations from the tip of a rod to the reel seat. I am approaching this not by opinion as we all have opinions but by physical properties that is easily provable.

"Sound waves need to travel through a medium such as solids, liquids and gases. The sound waves move through each of these mediums by vibrating the molecules in the matter. The molecules in solids are packed very tightly. Liquids are not packed as tightly. And gases are very loosely packed. This enables sound to travel much faster through a solid than a gas. Sound travels about four times faster and farther in water than it does in air. This is why whales can communicate over huge distances in the oceans. Sound waves travel about thirteen times faster in wood than air. They also travel faster on hotter days as the molecules bump into each other more often than when it is cold".

Removing the considerations of time and profits for the rod builder it becomes beyond argument that vibrations will travel more efficiently through a solid body than they will a porous body. I had the luxury of building rods for a clientele where time and money was not an issue. Therefore the extra time spent gluing a reel seat with an expanding glue to make a solid connection between a graphite rod, graphite arbors, and the graphite reel seat was a non-issue for me. My goal is maximum sensitivity and this process achieves that for me.

This is the why. My every customer over the years have always told me that my rods were the most sensitive they have ever had in their hands which happens to be my goal.

Anyone else can glue a rod however they want but for me I will stick with the expanding glue. I have no antagonistic intentions in this description at all this is just the why I do it the way I do.

The thing is, we both agree.

At least I completely agree with you. A solid connection between the blank and the seat and grip is absolutely necessary to maximize "feel".

It is the way we get that connection that's different. When I use tape arbors, I use 1/2" tape out to a snug slip fit. One near the front of the seat, one near the rear, and one in the middle. I use a VERY liberal amount of epoxy thickened with diatomaceous earth. I use DE because it is 100% pure silica, which cures extremely hard and stiff in an epoxy matrix. This thick mixture is about the consistency of Crisco.

Packed well into the spaces created by the tape arbors. front, back, and middle, the mix firmly connects the seat/handle to the blank when it cures. The tape is then meaningless because it has no function after the epoxy cures. It cannot deaden the action as the epoxy is taking the load and transmitting any vibrations, not the tape.

Just a different way to skin a cat.

Tom

I'll have to dig up some old data on the "why" some companies started making the graphite and polyurethane arbors. I believe Fuji did some testing quite awhile ago and found some science that worked to their logic.

If we look hard enough however, we can always find someone or some thing to support our logic.

That being said, tape has been utilized as long as rods have been made and a ton of us have rods that have them as many store bought rods still use them.

For me, I prefer the graphite or poly arbors due to some personal testing for a few applications. With that however, I will provide a BUT... I've only ever tested one type of tape. I suspect that this tape doesn't allow the epoxy to flow through it. If it did, it would create a solid piece allowing vibration to travel from blank to reel seat. That, might be the main issue. Similar to adding rubber.

My question as I have not tested this: Have any of you guys tested differences in reel seats? I've used aluminum, wood, graphite, and so on, but never on similar rods to see if it makes a difference.

Great job by the way guys. Both of you make great points and comments while still being able to remain civil! Sometimes we find it hard to convey our messages and then things can be taken out of context. You guys did a great job going back and explaining your reasons.

Here would be something fun!

We all pick a cheap rod blank (has to be the same). We establish a spending limit for guide eyes, reel seats, etc... build the rods, and then have a non bias 3rd party (several) fish with them.

This would NOT be to find out who is better. What it would do is allow all of us to share what we did, and, from the outcome, be able to figure out what worked better for that application and why. It gets expensive for one guy to do this but, if 5 or 6 each did one, that is a huge test base! Just another way to learn from each other.

I have a friend that has crappie fished my home lake for over 50 years. He seldom fishes over 15' deep. I catch crappie regularly suspended at 50' in 70' of water. We both have freezers full of fish. Neither of us have questioned the others ability or way of fishing. Some how we manage to be close friends even though we don't do things the same way.

I have used two rods built by the wrangler, mine and my son-in-law's. they are by far the best rods that I have used, catching thousands of crappie, sandies, walleyes, and a number of catfish, as well as many trout in Montana. The rods are about 30 years old and are in great shape. The inlays are works of art. I have used Fenwick, St. Croix, and Huckabee, but wrangler makes the best.