Sonar Quiz #51 ...

Once we realize the possibility that there may be Sonar scenarios outside the manufacturer's "recommended" xducer mounting concept ..............

It opens interesting ideas of gathering Sonar information from areas in the water column not normally seen with these manufacturer's "recommended" xducer mountings ...
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Gene has sent me pix of an interesting example he employs using a DI xducer as "side-looking" ...

Here is Gene's target ...:
Attachment 305179

He knows there's fish under there ... but where??

Sure ... SI can be used ... but what about DI "looking sideways" ...??

Gene has rotated his DI xducer sideways to look under docks ... with 3 important criteria to mentally visualize what the targets (rendered into the DI image) actually mean...

1. Mentally visualizing the shape of the DI beam ...
Attachment 305183

2. Mentally visualizing where that DI beam is "aiming" ...

3. A DI displayed image renders "distance to target" from the top of the DI displayed image to the target displayed farther down in the DI displayed image ...
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Can you explain what the targets in the DI image below are showing us with Gene's unorthodox "side-looking" DI xducer Setup ...??

Attachment 305180

Rickie

If I were going to fish that dock.I would expect the fish ,to be in the shady portion.those fish in Genes shot appear to be out in the sun tho.:dono

I can see the fish and the dock floats. I would assume as well they are in the darkest shaded area, suspended from about midway of the water column to the bottom. I'm sure Gene would have caught them all, ��

To much for my little brain...

what appears to be the bottom is actually the shoreline.
the straight edged objects at “top” are the dock floats
the group of fish are under the right most dock

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Originally Posted by Schins

what appears to be the bottom is actually the shoreline.
the straight edged objects at “top” are the dock floats
the group of fish are under the right most dock

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In my best Gary Coleman voice, What you talking about Willis?

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Actually I have to correct myself......the fish are under the right most dock, but the dock closest to land.

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Originally Posted by Pithon

In my best Gary Coleman voice, What you talking about Willis?

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What im seeing is the beam is pointed a couple feet below the right side dock ( when looking at the whole dock structure) and towards shore.
So the image is first catching the dock floats slightly submerged....you can see the small gap in between the floats.....then the fish which are close to shore. But the fish may be closer, as they are a bright strong signal. So I might be wrong on that part.

I'd like to see a Mega DI xdcr being used like this

I'm going to "assume " that Gene idled in front of the dock moving right to left of the picture, getting as close to to end of the dock as he could to cruise by.

To me this is allot like looking at a single side of your SI and most of what you are looking at shows up in the water column or suspended off the bottom.

Looks like at least one larger fish mixed in with the other fish. Guess I have an unfair advantage here as I've been blessed to fish with Gene for a few years and see him use his electronics, he sure has taught me allot.

But I also would like to see what kind of image a mega DI transducer would produce under the same conditions.

Love these quizzes, they help us all learn no matter which brand of electronics your using.

So, couple of questions. Would depth lines tell you how far under the dock the fish are? The stobb under the cursor with the fish around it, is that under the front dock, or the back dock, or up against the shore line?

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I won't right now tell you where the fish are located but remember as Roy has said it is now like a si unit using one side,also you are forgetting what Rickie said that it is a Distance unit,so remember it is telling you Distance and not depth, this could help you in many situation,the more you use si or di the more you should think about what it is telling you.with di slanted I can tell you better on size of fish than si even with mega si , these fish were about a lb and over, wife caught a 1 7/8 lb , could be that big one that Roy spoke of in the picture, funny thing happened as we were catching them and putting them back I noticed on di that they moved under boat and I drop down and caught one then no more so I scanned the dock again and all had left

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This is messing with my mind, the transducer is at the top of the screen and we are looking at only the large covered part of the dock on the right side. Am i all wrong, i would love to see fish that clear. Are there other pictures we can look at? I have pm Gene before but at the time i had a 998, don't have it anymore. In the market now, want all the infro i can get about how to read first then what unit to go with. I don't do anything but docks and boat houses.

This is another dock with di slanted however the water had a lot of alegy in the water and I have noticed over the years that it gets worst under the docks and may be clear away from the dock .I will send a picture of my set later

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Forgot how to do a picture on phone and computer is down


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Attachment 305438

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I'll take a scientific "WAG" guess..his xducer is pointed SSW, the depth is approximately 25 ft, but he is in 53 fow and looking toward the shoreline. Dock supports are in right side of screen. Distance to his target is 44 ft. And....he caught 'em!

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Originally Posted by Pithon

So, couple of questions. Would depth lines tell you how far under the dock the fish are?

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Depth lines in the DI image would indeed help determine how far each target is from the xducer ...

Remember in a DI image - the xducer is at the top of the DI image (or 0 feet depth) ... Every target below 0 feet depth is "x" distance away from the xducer ... In Gene's case, sideways from the xducer ...
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The digital depth readings in this type of scenario should not necessarily be used as criteria ... because the unit is "looking" for a hard return to determine digital depth - and a sideways aiming DI xducer is pointing the wrong direction to obtain this hard return to determine digital depth ...

In Gene's scenario of a DI xducer turned sideways - we should should only focus on the displayed targets and how far they are from the xducer - and use the mental visualization of the shape and direction of the DI Sonar beam to deduce where there targets are ...

Rickie

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Originally Posted by Pithon

The stobb under the cursor with the fish around it, is that under the front dock, or the back dock, or up against the shore line?

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That "stobb" looking thing with the fish around it are going to be way back under the the dock - almost to the shoreline ... because those targets are the furtherest from the xducer (which is 0 depth in the DI image) ...

Attachment 305474

Rickie

This is my di transducer,I have a separate 2 d transducer that stays straight down it's on a split cordAttachment 305488

If I get time after church I will tell you more about the picture, going off first and not sure when I will get back

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You guys are something else (smile). I am just trying to learn the basics of my Helix 10 mega everything and you are interpreting a transducer mounted sideways. I am a lifelong learner but sometimes I wonder if I should just be happy catching a few crappie. I love you overachievers and enjoy your posts. I wonder if I know anything that Rickie does not. Maybe like flying a helicopter or shooting Axis? Probably not.


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Attachment 305525Attachment 305526 Here is a few pics of my set up doing what Genec has done. But I need to refine my mounting a bit as I get cross talk from the two. I have this on separate units, the transducer mounting pole is electrical steel conduit and one of Rickie's ducer mounts. I use mine not for docks but to look for fish hiding in the cypress knees we have here on the coastal rivers and creeks.

Ok guys,I was going about 4 feet from dock, the water was about 20 feet deep, the fish show up at 13-18 feet Away, you can see the floats from 4-12 feet away,it looks like the fish are under the back floats, how ever they were in-between the first and second floats and at about 12 feet deep, the shade was at front of dock,si would have showed it the same way,they only show how far away from ducer, look at some of Rickie picture and you can see object 20 feet away and near the top on water 22 feet deep will look like on bottom and only 2 ways I know of to tell for sure is catching them and shadow, here we have no shadow, hope I have not confused you do Rickie is better than I at explaining it

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[emoji48] my brain is not capable of handling all this info. I give up, ya'll win.

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bring on more quizzes :biggrin

I can't even figure out how to update my Helix and y'all doing all this rocket surgery on y'all units. Y'all killing me!

I got a couple new 2gb ultra plus 10 . Do they need formed before use ?

probably not. I bet theyre already FAT 32

Open file explorer and right mouse click on the card.....if the file system shows FAT 32 you are good to go. I will sometimes do a quick format because they often put some files on there out of the factory that I don't want on the card.

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Originally Posted by IceNitro

I got a couple new 2gb ultra plus 10 . Do they need formed before use ?

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Originally Posted by Schins

probably not. I bet theyre already FAT 32

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Originally Posted by BobB

if the file system shows FAT 32 you are good to go.

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:scratchhead :dono

I'm no where near as good with the technical parts as I'd like to be. If I was, I'd have already hacked in to the operating system of different units and made them do exactly what I wanted.

FAT 32 = File Allocation Table 32 Bit

Newer operating systems use 64 Bit which may be called NTFS format since it was first introduced with Windows NT-file system. Windows 10 may no longer do a FAT 32 format, and if needed the format would need to be done with Humminbird PC.

Clear as mud right.

But.... we are way off track for this thread.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BobB

FAT 32 = File Allocation Table 32 Bit

Newer operating systems use 64 Bit which may be called NTFS format since it was first introduced with Windows NT-file system. Windows 10 may no longer do a FAT 32 format, and if needed the format would need to be done with Humminbird PC.

Clear as mud right.

But.... we are way off track for this thread.

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Sorry i got off topic Rickie ; it was way past my bedtime...

That is a heck of a set up tahoe 50..

You guys talk a fellow into trying this, but the more you talk, wow. Why would a person need to go into operating system?