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You guys that tournament fish a lot help me understand how that you could possibly miss count 7 fish
i have heard of that happing quite a bit .I went to one of the crappie USA seminars and the guy speaking says that he has had to disqualify several people for that reason . Please understand that I’m not trying to belittle any one and I sure don’t want to stir up a stink. I’m sure that’s its a perfectly honest mistake but a very costly one!:scratchhead:dono
Missing some fingers
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:santa:santa Take the money and run. Lol. Not sure how you get it that wrong.
Numbers is hard.
I have Walt in my boat to keep me honest! :biggrin
Here’s my guess. Catching and putting in the livewell, but not weighing and identifying/separating them. Get to weigh in, then try to sort through several fish...in the tournaments that I have fished, you can keep up to the limit, but only weigh seven. Now, you are in a hurry, weighing, culling, and moving them around. Chances are they are in a weigh-in bag, so they are bunched up. All that being said, you are hurrying and get careless.
Simple solution would be to use tagging balls, 7 balls = 7 fish.....
Yes sir, that’s even how they are packaged, seven.Quote:
Originally Posted by silentkilla
On day 2 the top 10 keep their fish in the boat and wait for everyone else to weigh in. They are then pulled in in their boat to tbe scales. With ACT you are allowed to bring 8 fish to the weigh in but only weigh 7. All fish must be alive at the check in, then you dont need the spare fish. Getting pulled in front of the crowd and cameras, then its time to grab the fish, bag them and run to the scales. With everything going on it would be easy to just grab all of them.
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Also its automatic DQ to bring tagged to the line.Quote:
Originally Posted by ET Fish
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When the bite is on, your throwing fish in the live-well. At the ramp, your focused on loading the boat on the trailer, unloading gear form the boat, grabbing fish and hustling to make the scales. Miscounts happen more frequently than you can imagine. It's easy to loose focus, and miss-count. Seen several show up with 6 and not 7 too. Also seen them swear they are missing a big one or two, but have there limit. After weigh-in check their live-well and sure enough, they crabbed a couple of shorter ones and left bigger fish in another live-well. Seen that too, got their limit in one live-well, and the partner grabs them out of the other liver-well.
Easy to say how can you miss-count when your not under the clock? But once that clock starts, things change. Doesn't matter how much time you get to fish, there is never enough time at the ramp afterwards...
I was told by a fellow tourny fisherman that was there and participated that it was an honest mistake and that ACT official pull the 8th fish out of the boxes so when time came for these guys to grab there bag and go to the scales they never gave it a second thought. They were totally unaware that they actually had 9 fish in the box and not 8, in addition it is also ACT's responsibility as well to make sure things are correct and not only did ACT make a mistake at the livewell by not counting the fish but also ACT missed it again at the scales; which if nothing else shows just how easy it is to have this happen. My only thought is ACT messed up more than the anglers and when ACT awarded the New Ranger boat to these guys it was done, and if they felt the need to overturn there mistake they needed to be ordering up a 2nd boat for the other anglers.
ACT rule, that everybody is told, is 8 fish only in the box. As soon as the weigh in time passed they had sealed their DQ.
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Rule #22
Rules – American Crappie Trail
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I totally agree with you Semo according to the rules they should have been DQ at the scales but it's my understanding that ACT not only didn't DQ them they actually weighed their fish and awarded them first place, of course they weren't aware they were weighing 8 fish but still a big mistake by ACT so they should shoulder some of the responsibility as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Semo
I've seen 8 fish brought to the scales a couple times. Once the guy would have won easily by a pound but just got excited I guess, he was steaming mad. The other time was a club tourney and we just let them throw one back and weigh, no big deal amongst friends. We all laughed and made fun of them for not being able to count.
excited and careless maybe ? I bet I could mess it up pretty easy myself ....:Rofl
I think Hanr3 summed it up pretty nicely.
I have seen it happen to smart, intelligent, excited people more than once.
We always counted the bag at least twice, no matter what.
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We dump ours out and recount before heading to scales.
Well if'n they are sayn 8 fish anywhere they should weigh 8 fish.... why would that be a rule? Sorta like shooting yourself in the foot if'n ya ask me...But what do I know, I haven't feeshed one of these tourneys..... yet....
With that being amount awarded to the winners I'd say there should be more attention put making sure the amount of fish was the same for all the contestants....
Are they intentionally throwing these tourneys?
That would for sure be on my mind with allowing this to happen....
Being DQ'd for using a tagging system? That makes a lot of sense.... how do you determine your BIG fish at the scales?
I don't mix my meat fish with my tourney fish, never ever would I do that especially in a tourney this BIG.... juss sayn:donoQuote:
Originally Posted by Redge
By that way of thinking, if I could sneak an extra one past them, I should win.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonnie84
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As far as the tagging goes, we left a tag on our big fish at MCC Grenada this past Saturday. Last ones to weigh in, and when I dumped the cooler in the basket, they looked at us like I had just stood up and farted in church, but I was allowed the remove the tag.
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When tournament fishing, and money is on the line, I never worry about meat fish! In one tournament trail we fish, you are allowed to keep your fish after the weight in. We only do it when the fish are dead (we are allowed dead weight in this series with no penalty). There is one location that will not allow us to release fish. The native American tribe gets involved. Without being political one way or another, we ALL keep our fish during this tournament.
Walleye tournaments are different. Some of them ONLY allow you to keep 1 fish above your limit (tournament weight limit NOT your state limit). So, if you weight 5 fish, you can only have 6 in the boat at one time. Some of them allow for you State possession limit but only the 5 weigh fish go in the box. For us, there is zero reason to keep over 6 fish. I run two livewells. My cull fish (smallest of the 6) goes in the other livewell with the Largest fish. Scales are your friend. Weight every fish, store the numbers, and tag it. Easy to shift your weights.
I've seen undersized fish come to the scale. DQ for the day on ALL weight. Their bump board is the board that counts, not yours!
The Way I see it, you are shooting yourself in the foot by putting 8 fish in the box to then weight 7. Be confident in the 7 biggest fish and take your medicine if you have dead weight. It isn't the other competitors fault that you cannot count. Don't rely on others to ensure you are doing the right thing. The tournament should not have to stand over a grown man (or women) and count, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, ah 8... sorry, you are one fish over. You might want to think about it. If two guys in the boat can't keep track of it, then maybe they want to think about what they are doing.
Yes, mistakes happen but, I see it as the sole responsibility of the competitor and not the tournament. We learned how to count in Kindergarten!
I think it could be a heat of the moment thing. Like was said earlier the fish are biting and all you think is to get the fish in the well alive. you really don't think about culling until you are done and on your way to the ramp. time is of the essence and that is all that is in your mind.
I have fished several tournaments and pondered fishing the one this happened at. In MHO some thing ain't right. They weighed 9 fish and still had another in the live well!!! This is after the officials supposedly removed the small cull 8th fish and checked to see if that left them with 7 to weigh in. When I tourney fish I only want 7 in the box 8 at the most. If you can't keep those alive with the products that are on the market, you aught not fish tournaments. If you want to meat fish and keep a bunch do it while your prefishing for the tournament. That team should never had made it to the scales when they showed up to get checked at the weigh in line. Would of saved a lot of embarrassment for everyone envolved. Gonna be a little hard to edit that incident out of a TV show
Exactly!Quote:
Originally Posted by Crappiebeagle
When crappie fishing, and coming to the weight in, many guys use a 30qrt engel live bait cooler with bubbler. You throw in a cap full of Hydrogen peroxide which has extra oxygen in it (H2O2). Not hard to count your fish in a small box like this and keep them alive for final weigh in.
Haste makes waste :donoQuote:
Originally Posted by ET Fish
I did a few weeks ago. I thought I counted 7 but had 8 in the bucket. I cought it just in time though and only weighed 7. I can see it happening especially when you are tired and maybe dehydrated.
First of all I was there. The ACT Officials counted and checked their fish twice and removed the 8th fish from their livewell. At that time there were only 7 fish in the livewell. The Top 10 boats were all parked together on the side. Since they were leading they were weighted last. I stood beside the boat when they took the fish out of the livewell ( within 6ft). I never actually counted the fish as they took them out but after awhile I thought there was too many put in the bag. I have seen a few tournament fish and knew they did not over a 2# average. The live video shows what looks like a tagged fish being put back in the livewell, but it was not it was a floating air hose that caught on the side of the fish. All the fish were removed from the livewell. They should have known they had more than 7 fish in the bag. But 'heat of the moment"? When they weighed almost 15# I said no way. Matt Morgan took the bag of right away to the release tank and told the operator " don't dump this bag, hang it up, I'll will be right back". While all the rest of the hoopla was going on stage, he counted the fish and found 9 fish were in the bag. When the anglers were heading to the Polygraph he stopped them and told them they were DQ because they weighted too many fish. If you watch the live feed you can count the fish. The video was reviewed and the DQ held. The anglers have issued a letter and it is on ACT facebook page. The ACT Officials handeled it in the Best way possible at that time. This is an unfortunate mistake by the anglers. How the extra fish got in the livewell, I have No idea. All the videos have been reviewed even the one using the drone flying over the parking lot. No answers.Everyone involved would like to know. Only thing I know the fish were spawning!Quote:
Originally Posted by Crappiebeagle
Well it must be easy because some.of the bass pro's have done it as well. I don't fish tournaments but have missed what I had on the clicker many times. Now days I try to stop few short of a limit. Don't ask me how I know this.
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8 feesh now 9 feesh.... wow seems they would enforce using a tagging system.... why wouldn't they? Well when i get ready to bash some heads in these bigger tourneys I know I won't have that problem.... if I can fish by myself and weigh and tag each fish I classify a weigh-in fish what's the problem with a team doin it....:dono
Read their Post on American Crappie Trail’s Facebook page. May have not been a miscount afterall......
After reading the statement the team that got dee qued posted, reinforces my belief that Sumthin Ain't Right
This could happen to anyone once, but I’d bet it won’t happen to the same guy twice.
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Below is a copy of the letter that was posted on the ACT facebook page by the contestants!
American Crappie Trail
March 19 at 9:25pm
From the team of Randy Pope and Steve Deitz
We would like to emphatically state that we respect and love the sport of fishing, as well as, those competing in the sport. We are very saddened by what took place at the tournament weigh in at Neely-Henry Lake. We also feel it necessary to express how shocked and confused we are.
We are confident that we did not exceed the seven fish limit. We had a spotter in our boat who watched our fish being counted by us and two ACT officials counting on two different occasions prior to the live weigh-in. With seven confirmed fish, adrenaline pumping, overwhelmed with the possibility of winning, we knew our seven fish limit was well above the 10.47 pounds needed to win. It did not dawn on us to count them out again as we were weighing in.
As to how there were additional fish in our live-well, remains a mystery. Clearly, it would be ridiculous for us to do anything to jeopardize our clear opportunity to win since we knew we were in the lead with a limit. At this point, we are deeply concerned, knowing that our boat was left unattended during the almost two hour waiting period prior to the official live weigh in. We realize now that there was a window of opportunity for something nefarious.
In response to the posted remarks about what is being perceived as a cull tagged fish in the live well, during the live weight in, it was actually a floating air bubbler hose that had been tied off. ACT officials reviewed the video footage and confirmed it as such. To address any accusations about being nudged by Randy in a suspicious manner, the only nudge given was the one for me to move the dripping fish being held over his head while showing it to the audience.
We can say with all sincerity, we have been completely honest, transparent and of the highest principle because of our faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. We have even requested that any area surveillance cameras be reviewed.
How could two experienced tournament fishermen, a spotter who counted at the ramp and remained with us until the end, and two ACT officials miscount seven fish? We seriously doubt that five people would have all counted incorrectly! Did someone place these additional fish in our unattended live well while waiting for the weigh in?
We strongly encourage a new rule of at least one team member remaining inside the boat during the weigh in process. If you are the contender in a tournament, never leave your boat unattended while waiting your turn to weigh in!
We would like to thank all the team members and officials of ACT for their efforts, positive attitudes and being such a class ACT!
Congratulations to Ron Lundy and Joey Hilton on their win, they are two great guys and we are happy for them.
I have done it..It can happen...Any person entering a national contest knows the rules.. They have too much invested to get caught...Especially when you have a stringer weight like these guys had .. My vote says it was an honest mistake...
Wow the plot deepens.
Yeap, to hear they left their boat over an hour gives time for anything to happen.... my feesh would have been with me the entire time or at least in site....terrible to hear they could have been screwed out of winning....Quote:
Originally Posted by Crappiebeagle
The letter had to happen. The reasons are numbered but here are some of the main ones:
Cheating- What one person see's as a miscount others will still see it as cheating. Tournament rules are pretty clear on this subject. Caught cheating in events usually means bigtime bans from not just this tournament trail but ALL tournament trails!!!!
Sponsorship- You own a company and your name is on the side of said persons boat. Regardless of what happened, the vote of popular opinion far outweights what might have actually happened. Sponsors are simply going to want to distance themselves from the situation.
Issuing a statement can do a couple of things both positively and negatively. On the positive side, it gets your message out. Your point of view. Your side of the story. Unfortunately, the negative side quickly takes over.
They state: "We are confident that we did not exceed the seven fish limit"
And then: "We had a spotter in our boat who watched our fish being counted by us and two ACT officials counting on two different occasions prior to the live weigh-in"
They then state that a period of time goes by (where boat is left unatended) which is made to lead someone to believe that "possibly" someone or something (a bird maybe) put extra fish in the livewell.
Here is the statement: "We realize now that there was a window of opportunity for something nefarious."
UNFOTUNATELY, this next statement is the EXACT problem here: "It did not dawn on us to count them out again as we were weighing in"
So, the answer to the problem (Too many fish) is really quiet simple. You counted the fish, a spotter counted the fish, and two ACT officials counted the fish. The reason for this was to ENSURE you had the legal number of fish allowed in your livewell. This was well PRIOR to weight in. Time passed and then you get the opportunity to transfer your fish from the livewell to your bag for weight in. This was your LAST opportuntiy to count 1,2,3,4,5,6,7. You said it in your statement: "It did not dawn on us to count them out again as we were weighing in".
Regardless if someone walked up to your boat and threw a couple of fish in the livewell during the time you were away from your boat, it was YOUR responsibility to ensure you had the proper number of fish in your bag before going to the scale. Had you counted when bagging, you would have noticed 9 fish. You could have immediately flagged the (3) different people that PREVIOUSLY verified your box. Unfortunately, because you failed to count going in to the bag, I do not feel sorry for you!!!
I'm not saying they cheated, I'm not saying that someone didn't put fish in their boat while they were gone, I'm not saying that rules might not need to be changed in order to keep a watchful eye. What I am saying is what they said themselves: "It did not dawn on us to count them out again as we were weighing in"