Kinda new to tying and I’ve been using bucktail but what’s the difference in kiptail? I don’t wanna order without a little guidance
Sent from my iPhone using Crappie.com Fishing mobile app
Printable View
Kinda new to tying and I’ve been using bucktail but what’s the difference in kiptail? I don’t wanna order without a little guidance
Sent from my iPhone using Crappie.com Fishing mobile app
Quick question, any reason for the preference in "hair" as to feathers?
Realized that didn't help ya much...
I don't tie much hair, but I have and as far as tying for sacalait, kip tail isn't as hollow a hair, it doesn't spin or break as easily as buck. Kip is great, just doesn't move much. Neither do really. But I'd use kip for lethargic fish in cold water.
Not sure that made sense....
Sent from my iPhone using Crappie.com
Kip is calves tail and I've used it some. I don't have much luck with lots of it in at once. Smaller amounts have worked better for me.
Man I haven’t tried feathers yet really don’t even know what type feathers to order... I’m going to help run a snow goose spread in a couple weekends and I’m gonna pull a bag full and try them...
Thanks for the info on kiptail... I ordered 3 colors of it and gonna try some... is it just softer and thicker? That’s the reason you saying don’t use to much?
Sent from my iPhone using Crappie.com
Clancy, kiptail or calftail is much more durable than buck or doe tail. It also will get softer and somewhat transluscent when it is in the water. I fish kiptail jigs in the 1/64 to 1/8 oz. range under a small float with a crappie nibble on the hook and maybe a small split shot between the jig and float. I tie them with only the hair, no chenille etc. and try not to use too much hair, because they won't bite it as good. I usually use two contrasting colors of hair. I tie it with ultra fine clear mono thread which stretches and holds the slippery hair good, and then switch to red flat waxed nylon thread over the mono along with a tad of super glue thin before the red thread, the jig will never come apart this way.
tying with kiptail takes some getting used to, the tail will have shorter hair towards the butt end and it gets longer towards the tip, the tail will usually be good for several sizes of jigs depending on what part of the tail it is from and how long it is. I use a pair of side cutters to cut the tail in sections through the bone if it has one, this makes the hair easier to get to and cut from the tail. I will cut a little bunch of hair and pull some loose stuff from the butt of it lightly and then pull any straggly sideways looking strands too, then I will note the curvature of the hair bunch which usually there is a little curve to the hair and lay it on the jig with the curved ends facing downward, I wrap it tightly with the mono and then turn the jig over for the other color hair. I usually make the belly color lighter in color and also shorter than the backbone color, this helps give it a tapered look. try to get your thread neck as short as you can, maybe 1/8" long on a 1/16 oz. don't be afraid to add a minnow thru the lips to the jig, or a half a redworm for other species, these are big crappie baits for some reason and they used to be called pinkie jigs back in the day.
another thing is I use single edge razor blades to trim the excess length of hair just behind the jigs head before finishing the thread wraps, I do this by very carefully pressing on the hair just in front of the wraps and use the lead head as a backstop, so the razor blade is being pushed at an angle towards the lead head so as not to cut the thread under the hair and yes I do this a lot and it sometimes means starting over. don't try to make the jigs as long as the crappie bucktails either. just a few tips, hope this helps.
To me craft hair is a better way to go .
To Me A lot depends on what weight jig or size hook your tying on. If you're tying on a #8 you'll throw a lot of hair away if you use bucktail vs kiptail. Craft fur is good stuff and so is the synthetic hair from Fly Tyers Dungeon. If your just staring out I would look at fly Tyers dungeon for both flash and hair. Rabbit works well on smaller jigs also(Zonker Strips).Attachment 287474Attachment 287475 Goldish jig is 1/8oz with synthetic hair and smaller jigs are 1/48oz rabbit hair all with tulip paint eyes. Tying gets very addictive!!!!
Attachment 287481 Here’s a couple bucktails that I’ve tied
Sent from my iPhone using Crappie.com Fishing mobile app
Your question is not a one size fits all type. One guy like blonds the other red heads. I think you get my point. I will buy synthetic materials on line with out seeing them. However natural materials such as hair and hackle is better purchased by looking at it before buying it. There is big different in hackle for different applications. Quality dry fly hackle to make dry flys is stiff, repels water and comes from rosters.Necks can cost a few dollars to over a hundred. Tails from deer or calf's can have long hair or short hair (not long enough depending on what you are tying). Also most calf(kip) tails have some black hair at the base of it. If you can use the short black hair great if not look for one that has the least amount of waste. Also some hair will be hollow. Especially deer body hair. This is to keep the animal warm and repel rain. However it flairs when used and will be a problem for new tyers trying to use it on jig or streamer patterns. Going to a fly shop or at least talking to the shop owner can be a big help especially for beginner tyers! A good starting tip is go to your local craft store or Walmart and get some synthetic fur. It is cheap and in many colors. Liftbite is giving some very good advice.
Here are a few kip tail jigs and I know this stuff is very good at catching crappie!
Skip
Attachment 288007
kiptail takes a lot of patience and determination to learn how to tie a good looking jig, to me it is worth it. I have gone the craft hair route too and was using hair from punisher, I couldn't catch near as many fish on the synthetic, but maybe my fishing method using jigs under a float had something to do with that. kiptail is stiffer than craft hair and these two materials make totally different jigs.
Absolutely right on all accounts. I never believed in kip tails at all, but once these guys talked me into trying to copy their jig head and tie kip tail, I learned how well it works. When I got the first two samples of the head I painted and tie them, then tied one on under a cork and went down to my bank just to see. I put it in just arms length away, then saw a spot I thought maybe better? So I pulled it out and started to swing it to that other spot and saw just as it cleared the water a flash under it. So not being stupid I put it right back in and a few minutes later I had 3 crappie and the smallest was 14", lol! I became a believer!Quote:
Originally Posted by redear
redder these heads help in tying as when I got him to make the mold we talked about what I wanted and I told him I wanted a collar that was small and had a flair at the end to help control the width of the thread. I do have more of these than I will ever use. They are close to 1/16 oz.
Skip
Attachment 288104
The addiction will just continue for you. Last year spider rig central il with 1/48 lip tails two tone style and crushed them for about two weeks. Redear is giving you a good download. I do use them on 1/16 and down. I have been experimenting more using tail fabric from Joanns similar to the reds jigs discussed on the boards. Keep experimenting
Attachment 288284 here’s a few kips I tied the other night real quick... still getting used to it... it’s a little different than bucktail when it comes to judging how much hair you need
Sent from my iPhone using Crappie.com Fishing mobile app
I use less and can pinch one color on top and pinch another small section to make a two tone as a thought. Those should hunt
If you're tying in kip tail, tie in a small bunch about the size of a match stick at the time. You can also put a little super glue on the hook shank right where you are going to actually tie the kip tail to the shank for added security. If you need more hair, tie in a second bunch just in front of the first bunch. To keep from having hair sticking up on the jig head that you will need to trim away, trim the hair to length BEFORE you tie so that the butt ends are just short of the jig head and tie them in there. Hold the hair until you have made several wraps with your tying thread. There is no need to trim the hair if you don't get hair up on the jig head. Kip tail is sort of crinkle-y and hard to stack but with a little practice, you will find that kip tail is no problem at all.
Take care
GF
good job Clancy! those jigs look good too, and I know that Louisiana and Mississippi crappie anglers use those chenille and kiptail jigs to great effect. Up here in Virginia though where I fish the chenille and hair jigs don't work as well as a threadneck kiptail jig which is hair only like the ones skip showed us, I use them under a small float with a crappie nibble in silver sparkle here lately, will catch anything in the lake.
Skip I do like those jigheads and every time you show them I have the urge to make a one cavity mold of that head except I would move the hook back a little so I could hang it on a loop knot and get a horizontal presentation under a float.
Thank y’all for the help... i has to make a trip outta town this weekend but will be back to my vise tonight so hopefully get a few more tied up... I’ve been having addict withdrawals for the past 48 hours lol
Sent from my iPhone using Crappie.com
I will have to check these, but I think they hang level under a cork. That is how I first tired them, I had one of the tiny corks and just had the jig set like 12" to 14" under the cork. I bet the spot I put it was no more than 2 feet off the bank and a lot of floating limbs and other floating stuff. I was probably standing about 4 feet from the cork, lol! I will have to check how these sit in water under a cork and I will let you know. Also are you talking about a tied kip tail jig, if so I will use one of them?Quote:
Originally Posted by redear
I will tell you when he first made these he used a single shot mold he made, then he changed over to spin casting them, I was very happy that I held on to a few hundred of the hand pours as I like them better and the spin casted ones were a little lighter and I didn't care for the finish on them.
Skip
those are some pretty ties you did up on that head Skip.
Thank you redear! Hey if you ever want to try some of these let me know as I have more than I will ever use.
Skip
One trick is to only wrap a couple wraps, just enough to hold the hair in place. Then add a drop of thin superglue. Then finish wrapping. You probably already new that. Once you master kip tail, move on to Squirrel. Squirrel is slick. You will say bad words and disparage the Squirrel's ancestry, at first. BTW, fly tyers try everything from road kill to the fancy housecat. Don't be afraid to experiment! All of those jigs look great!
Another thing, usually, in fly tying, bucktail is used on flies 1 1/2" or longer. Calf tail for shorter. You can get fairly straight calf tails by hand sorting them. On buck tails, the 1/3 closest to the deer is useless. Some buck tail is a little crinkly and easier to tie with.
I don't tie a lot of buck tail, but like the more Southern deer over the big Northern ones. It makes a difference!Quote:
Originally Posted by thinkingredneck
Skip
there is a 50k acre lake in Va. that is probably the best crappie fishing around here and one of the local favorite jigs is a 3/32 bucktail with a size 4 jighook, plain unpainted head, red thread, flat waxed nylon 210 denier, and plain white doe tail or bucktail from local deer. there is a bait shop on the lake that carries these jigs, made by a local young man, and the store can't keep them in stock. they cast and count down and retrieve very slowly over brush piles and fish vertically beside bridge pilings. everyone down there would use them if they were more available to them. the trick to the bucktail is to make them about 2 inches, to 2 1/2 inches and tied kinda sparse, so you can hold it up to the light and see light through the hair.
the deer tail tho, won't last real long because once it kinks, it will break off, not so with the calf tail, but you need both jigs, kiptail for under a float and bucktails for casting. my favorite kiptail jig color combinations are pink/green chart or yellow chart, purple/ green or yellow chart, those two there work real good around here with a crappie nibble.
Not sure if you ever read my kip tails story or not, but the first two sample heads I got and tied and also sold me on kip tails were these two I first tied. See pic...Quote:
Originally Posted by redear
Skip
Attachment 289038
Skip. I remember that story well! It didn't surprise me either. the man that turned me on to the kiptail jig started using them in the 60's, they were popular back then and were called pinkie jigs. several mom and pop operations produced them. these jigs in 1/64 thru 1/16 are a killer under a float and we always put something on the hook. we used to put a piece of redworm on there for redears or bream and hook it thru the end and it would trail at least an inch behind the jig. or we would use a small minnow hooked thru the lips for crappies. nowadays we find that crappie nibbles work real well, we like the silver sparkle the best as of late but all the colors work. I have never trolled with them or cast and retrieved them so can't speak to that.
Another thing is this, these are big crappie baits, I tie some for a guy and his father, they crappie fish while spider rigging, they are very secretive as to their crappie fishing but being the guy that supplies them with their jigs, they confide in me as to their effectiveness. I know of maybe 4-5 crappies over 3lbs. and countless over 2lbs. they have taken on these jigs tipped with a small minnow. then there was a crappie that looked to be close to 4lbs. they lost at the net. they use the colors that have proven to catch sizable crappies and the colors can change from year to year. they like the heads painted and a green head with green hair is one of the favorites, I'm talking Kelly green hair and the head may be a little brighter, then there is the one with a fl. yellow head and purple hair, and if the water is muddy orange and fl. yellow hair with an orange head and thread. there it is I have spilled my guts, my personal fishing partner tries to get me to keep quiet about them but that just isn't my way, especially since I know they have no source for them lol.
when tying these jigs for myself and my fishing buddy, I leave the head unpainted and use two contrasting colors on the hair, the thread is always red on my own jigs. I used to paint all the heads but in water with some clarity the flash of the leadhead seems to work better, the crappie nibble is also part of the color scheme, so for my own use in ponds the unpainted head works better but if I was in big water with some color then yeah I would use a painted head. I tend to use vinyl liquid paint on these because trimming the hair with a razor blade by pushing against the back of the head will chip powder paint pretty bad but vinyl with clear overcoat will withstand it better. unpainted head I don't have to worry about it.