Posted - Get Out!

Do you fish private waters? Probably do and don't realize it since most of our waters are recognized as private by state law. Most of the waters we like to fish anyway. Just had another canal near White Lake blocked off this summer. I fished it since 1972 without a boo from anyone.

I heard of an organization trying to fight all the closures via legislative action and wonder if anyone here has joined.
It's the Louisiana Sportsmen Coalition.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/936109849813025/

Found out about this org listening to Don Dubu's radio show last Saturday morning

Private waters and land are a touchy situation. Many of us get tired of the trash folks leave behind. Walmart bags, fast food crap, etc. I had to put the skids to it here. Which I'm sure many of us land owners have encountered. I've had folks riding along the Vermilion river and shooting squirrels along the riverbank, while the pellets hit the house. The trash is unbelievable once again.

The organization you speak of can fight it, but I'll fight back where we live.

As a large landowner myself.....i know what your talking about. I manage mine myself also.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Crappie.com Fishing mobile app

The law states "if the water was navigable in the year 1812 it belongs to the state or feds. any land from the year 1812 to present time that has eroded since then and now has ponds and bayous on it, that water, pond, bayou, ect belongs to the land owner.

Louisiana is the only state to have a law like this one. only WMAs will be accessible if this trend continues.

You need to send emails to your State Legislators and you need to establish contact with your local Tourism Commission.

No one I'm aware of is challenging private land owners rights.

Also BASS and FLW are leaving the state because of this law.

Tournament anglers banned from Louisiana waters, BASS says | NOLA.com

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Originally Posted by Tracker123

The organization you speak of can fight it, but I'll fight back where we live.

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I don't think that the org is trying to gain rights over the land. It's just the water that flows and is navigable that fishermen want access too. The land owners around Vermilion Parish want us to stay out of their oil field canals, but don't mind asking WL&F to spray their bad water plants. How can public money be allowed to keep a private canal clear?

There are maps available showing waters claimed by the state and it's very little of the areas we fish in the Southern part of the state. If you fish in an oil field canal chances are that it's considered private by the present law and you are subject to being run out.

One can make some interesting arguments about the early maps and the oil companies posting canals. The old maps not only show water claimed by the state but also water owned by the landowners. The canals weren't there on the old maps so there wasn't any water on the property where the canals are now. When the canals were dug the water owned by the state flowed over the landowners water bottom but it was never landowner water. The legislature passed a bill giving the water to the landowners. There is a question whether they have the authority to give away public resources and pick and choose who gets exclusive rights to public resources.

Also, the oil companies are public companies and are preventing the public from accessing public resources that flowed over water bottom when the landowners voluntarily removed their land. A lot of valid arguments could be made if someone had the time and money to fight it. The problem is the landowners have the money and the influence. At the very least, the landowners should have to pay the state for the water and for the fish based on population per acre if they deny public access. This should be an annual payment due to evaporation and the ebb and flow of the tide. They should also have to pay higher taxes due to the canals, water, and fish increasing the value of the property.

None of this will happen because the legislature responds to money and influence, not right or wrong. I personally would like to see all bass and redfish tournament trails send a notice of cancellation of all activity in the state until the issue is satisfactorily resolved and their contestants aren't subject to fines for unintended violations. Until the state loses revenue the sportsmen don't have a chance.

That being said, I understand the complaints of actual private landowners having their property trashed and would feel the same way. I feel like that when I pick up trash someone threw in my yard but never felt like I had the right to close the road.

Here's the bigger problem, the beds of these waterways are private things. So, talking to your legislator will likely do no good. Any legislation would result in a taking requiring a payment to the owner. Take a look at the Crooks case involving Catahoula and the millions awarded to the bed owners. This is a be careful what you wish for situation.

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Originally Posted by PMantle

Here's the bigger problem, the beds of these waterways are private things. So, talking to your legislator will likely do no good. Any legislation would result in a taking requiring a payment to the owner. Take a look at the Crooks case involving Catahoula and the millions awarded to the bed owners. This is a be careful what you wish for situation.

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Think of air and water as two mediums for transit by plane and boat. You can't restrict the transit in the air over your land because air is public unless you contain it. Water should be public in the same way. The landowner should have to contain it to claim it.

The air is public below 1,200' above the surface of ground level (AGL), otherwise it is governed by the FAA - which is restricted.

Just a couple of quick question. How many other states in the union are there where you can be arrested for trespass while you're sitting in your own boat in open water? Or is Louisiana the only state so gifted? Just wondering.

I used to hunt wherever I wanted, never had any problems with landowners because I knew everybody in the county. The few owners that had a problem with hunters I avoided their property. Since about 1970 the situation has gotten worse every year and now even if the law did not now require written permission I would not hunt on land I was not invited on. Although I could get permission from most of the older property owners I would feel like I was imposing on them.

Population growth and a change in attitude towards hunting and fishing has made leasing access more and more attractive.

Perhaps the answer is to form clubs that pay for access to restricted waters. You get access and the owner doesn't feel taken advantage of, plus trash and other problems would be policed by the club.

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Originally Posted by wolfhnd

Perhaps the answer is to form clubs that pay for access to restricted waters. You get access and the owner doesn't feel taken advantage of, plus trash and other problems would be policed by the club.

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They have a place like that near here and I bought a permit one year. They restrict horsepower, no paddle craft, and you have to get out way prior to duck season. Can't come back until in March. The answer here is to change the law IMHO.

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Originally Posted by Fredgr

Just a couple of quick question. How many other states in the union are there where you can be arrested for trespass while you're sitting in your own boat in open water? Or is Louisiana the only state so gifted? Just wondering.

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I've never even heard of that until I read this thread. That's crazy IMO. In AL as long as I'm in my boat, in the water, I'm good to go anywhere that I can travel.

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Originally Posted by Cajun Pop

...That being said, I understand the complaints of actual private landowners having their property trashed and would feel the same way. I feel like that when I pick up trash someone threw in my yard but never felt like I had the right to close the road.

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You would if you owned the road. My driveway is over 1/2 mile long.

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Originally Posted by Fredgr

Just a couple of quick question. How many other states in the union are there where you can be arrested for trespass while you're sitting in your own boat in open water?
None

Or is Louisiana the only state so gifted? Just wondering.

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Yes the only one.

I find this whole concept of ownership rights a rather novel one. The land owners claim that if it was dry land on an 1812 map as a previous post mentioned then it is to be considered as such today. Of the many laws and constitutions that Louisiana has had since 1812 and the myriad of changes that have taken place its truly amazing that this 1812 map should come to us today in a completely unmodified and absolutely pristine state.
The next question would be how far from shore would these ownership rights extend once the actual shore line has retreated. Would it be hundreds of feet? A few miles or several miles. Or maybe we should have a simple " within sight of land" rule. If you're within sight of my land then you're trespassing.

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Originally Posted by FurFlyin

I've never even heard of that until I read this thread. That's crazy IMO. In AL as long as I'm in my boat, in the water, I'm good to go anywhere that I can travel.

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Most of the water in question are manmade canals. They werent there in 1812. They are still affected by tide, but its surrounded by private property on all sides.

They are still affected by tide, but its surrounded by private property on all sides.[/QUOTE]

If they were surrounded by actual property on all sides they wouldn't be affected by tides. None of them were dug on the interior of private property. they all connected to public waterways initially then others were dug off the initial ones. They all contain public water that flowed from public waterways over private water bottom when the landowners removed their land. They never bought the water or fish from the citizens of Louisiana. The legislature assumed the right to give away public resources and allow landowners the right to deny the public access to resources owned by the public. My belief is that the legislature does not have that authority but it would take a long and expensive fight to resolve the issue. The only real chance the public has to regain access to public resources, in my opinion, is to have all bass and redfish tournament trails notify the state that they will discontinue all activity in the state until the issue is resolved in a manner that does not put their contestants at risk of involuntarily trespassing or breaking the law. The resolution should exempt water bottom owners from any liability for accidents that occur on public water over their property. If I win the powerball I will take it to court.

Cajun Pop, I think you've hit it. The issue is the property owners want it both ways -private but open. I don't have a problem with someone wanting private water just close it off, and lock it down. If I drag my boat over your land to get to your private water take me to jail today! But don't call the sheriff because I've crossed some unmarked ,imaginary line on a map from 1812.
Sad to say, like so much, what we're really talking about is the money. Interestingly Louisiana has already gone through a very similar situation. Look up Leander Perez, the Delacroix Corp., and the Plaquemine Parish land wars of the 1920's and 30's and you can see how that turned out. I'll give ya' hint- them with money made tons more money. All perfectly legal of course!

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Originally Posted by Fredgr

Cajun Pop, I think you've hit it. The issue is the property owners want it both ways -private but open. I don't have a problem with someone wanting private water just close it off, and lock it down. If I drag my boat over your land to get to your private water take me to jail today! But don't call the sheriff because I've crossed some unmarked ,imaginary line on a map from 1812.
Sad to say, like so much, what we're really talking about is the money. Interestingly Louisiana has already gone through a very similar situation. Look up Leander Perez, the Delacroix Corp., and the Plaquemine Parish land wars of the 1920's and 30's and you can see how that turned out. I'll give ya' hint- them with money made tons more money. All perfectly legal of course!

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I think if all the South Louisiana fishermen would become aware of the extent of the problem and become active it could be changed. Will that ever happen? Unfortunately folks don't seem to care until they are kicked out of their favorite spot.