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I know the charts say how much line need to be let out for certain depths, etc. But as you can see in the picture, I have quite a bit of distance between my rod tip and the water. If my chart is telling me to let out 75 feet of line to be at a certain depth, do I need to let out 75 PLUS the distance from tip to water? Or 75 total? I think this is part of the reason I'm not doing to well cranking.
Tip to water should be factored in, I let my crank down to the water and when it hits is when I start at zero
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Yes....guess at line length from tip to water and add that distance to line out.
Thanks for the clarification guys.
As high as you have those poles you would be missing you target depth. Your boat speed, size of lure, size of bill on the lure, and diameter of your line. Very easy solution. Troll a line at the 75 feet across a point. When your contacts the bottom make another past deeper. When you no longer have contact with the bottom you will know exactly how deep your lures are running. This way you will know if have to, leave more line to reach you're desired depth.
I fish my flicker shad at 60 foot 10lb flo. will hit bottom between 8 1/2 9 1/2 ft. I measure 60ft from lure to tip of rod, black magic marker about 10 inches between spool and first guide let out line until black line comes off spool. puts you same depth and faster than watching a line counter. of course if you are using long rods add that length to distance from lure to rod tip. I troll with 7ft rods and that doesnt change depth but about 1 to 2 inches:twocents your milage may vary.
I use line counter reels. I usually start at 60, 80 & 100' out. If no go at that depth, I increase each rod another 20' until I get a few bites. I adjust my depth to the hot pole or poles. You get a feel after awhile of how deep your cranks run at certain speed and line out. I don't worry about length of line from rod to water. If you start getting bites at say 80'. I will adjust other rods to 70 and 80' to fine tune. I watch my fish finder all the time. Crappie go up and down during the day. Mainly because of sun.
You have a similar rear deck to my Aluminum Triton. I had a homemade catfish rack on the back of my boat when I bought it that I tried to troll from without a lot of success. Rod tips too high and too much line out of the water between the rod tip and the entry point to the water-it skewed my dive curves. Precision Trolling data is published as line submerged in the water. The lures rose even higher when you factor in the effect that wind had on all of that mono blowing around in the breeze between the boat and water.I took it off and created a quick way to attach it to the gunnel track system if I want to anchor up for catfish in the future.
I then purchased two rod holder t-bars and bases from Scott at HiTek Stuff with 9" risers to mount on my track. I tried something new last year and moved my rods forward of my console so that I can work within the open floor of the boat without having to climb up and down the casting deck since I fish by myself a lot. I can now see my rods while sitting on my bench seat looking forward. I adjust my rods so that the tips of all 6-8 rods are 4-6" off of the water and that puts the line entry point for my three outboard rods about even with each other just behind the stern of the boat. If the point of entry moves father behind the boat I know that I'm either towing a tiny fish or my crank is fouled and is riding too high in the water column.
The extra mount on the forward deck was used for a pushing rod that has been replaced with another track mount t-bar from HiTek to clean the deck up.
Attachment 270842
You have to watch, too, because some of those "dive curve" charts are specific to a certain line size, certain amount of weight added, a specific speed, and/or specific brand/model of crank. They base some of them on the 45deg angle of line theory .... that if your line is running at a 45deg angle, you can calculate how deep your rig is running by multiplying the length of line out (below water) by 0.6
So if you had 40ft of line out (below water) and your line angle was at 45deg (from rod tip to crank) then your crank would be approximately 24ft deep. But, you're not going to get that angle without added weight, unless you're using a "sinking" crankbait ... and the faster you go, the more weight would be required to keep the line at that angle.
This information is taken directly from Precision trolling:
Notes:
"To get the same results for other line types, the diameter of the line must be comparable to one of the line types listed. For most line types, speed does NOT matter. The lure can be trolled anywhere from 1.5 to 3.5 MPH and achieve the depths listed in the app. If speed does matter, the testing speed IS included in the line type".
So that said, the precision trolling app allows you to select a bait (say a flicker shad) and the type of line they used to perform the test. Most of the time, they utilize 10lb Berkley XT OR 10# Berkley FireLine. You select which line you use. IF however you are using some other line, you need to ensure (as said above) that the diameter is comparable. You can choose the max number of line out to show your depth in feet or, you can select the depth and it will give you the amount of line needed to go out.
In some cases, when speed is dependent (like the Off Shore Tadpoles) they will give you another column allowing you to select your speed. This will change the dive curve or angle for that bait.
These dive curves are created with actual divers in the water and all depths are measured from the water down to the bait. I know several of the guys that perform the testing and my tournament fishing depends on this application and I trust it.
For me, I utilize planer boards so, I let out the number of feet I need and clip on the board. IF however I was pushing or pulling, I would most certainly be measuring my distance from the tip of the rod to the water.
Line counter reels is what I use. The MOST important aspect of it however is to ensure your counter reels are calibrated. Below is an article I wrote in regards to calibrating counter reels and the importance of it:
https://www.fishsnipertackle.com/blo...-counter-reels
I remain skeptical of some of this line out stuff. At 75 feet out, 3 feet ain't much in play. Hypotenuse says so.
You are very correct on certain baits. Once they begin to plane out, it takes much more line out in order to get them to dive another foot. Eventually, they hit terminal depth.
There is a big difference on a Size 9 Flicker minnow running 40 back vice 50 back. There is not a big difference on the same bait running 80 back vice 90 back.
Just fished a tournament in a clean water situation in which the average human could see the bottom in 30 feet of water. Bait depth (setback) didn't matter near as much as bait selection.
That said, other dirty water situation call for much better depth control.
If one is utilizing dive curve charts, again, the key is ensuring your have your reel calibrated. Everyone always tells me they know there stuff is right until they actually measure it out. They Put a mark on the ground at 25, 50, 75, and 100 feet and begin to let out line. They get to 25 and look at their counter and it shows 32. They get to 50 and it shows 65, they get to 75 and the counter shows 96 and when they get to 100 their counter shows 128. They are losing roughly 7 feet of line for every 25 out. In other words, they have to let out 128 feet of line in order to actually hit the hundred mark.
Other baits, such as reef runners, bandit deep diving walleye baits, smithwick perfect 10's and 20's. 5 feet can be the difference of being in the strike zone or out of it at 75 feet.
all good points guys. To sum it all up, I guess the best course of action is to get the rod tips as close to the water as I can, set my TM on high (which will pull me at 1.5 mph), and keep adjusting my length in/out until I get bites. Then adjust other rods accordingly. And take the dive charts with a grain of salt. Thanks again, this turned out to be a pretty good discussion.
Yeah same here with depth charts we get a base line going on which ever blank we are pulling on a 10 foot flat determine how much line out it takes to hit 10 foot and go from there.....fish mostly planer boards.... Fished with the Deshanos a while back they actually hire a diver with a deep measuring pole in the water pull the cranks buy the pole and film at what depth and line out to develope depth charts.....here as muddy as it is the big flats work well for us....... We never rely much on the Okumas for acuratly telling us how much actual line is out.....our favorite bait takes 30ft to catch fish marking 10ft deep... From that point 25ft on one 30ft, 35ft 40, 45 etc until a pattern emerges....at that point we can zero in on the magic number...whatever it happens to be that day... Run almost exclusively 20lb 30lb spider wire has been successful for us ....