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Sometimes my thinking goes haywire.( in other words dumb as a stick). I have been reading about Garmin and Humminbird not having down scan built in to their transducers. I have been thinking about putting a transducer and new unit at the front of the boat. This being said does this rule out Garmin and humminbird? Since these two simulate down scan through the use of other crystals, how hard would it be to throw in a few fish just for good measure. I have a Lowrance Elite 7 e/w transducers on the front and back. Is there a difference between true downscan and simulated down scar? Is that why some Humminbird owners complain about not being able to see fish on downscan. True they only show white dots, but it is helpful to use zoom to help determine what you are seeing. Someone who has both. Is there a difference or am I all wet. Thanks ahead for any input or comments......crappie1133

Simulated is not the correct term. You can not simulate real time. The signals are real returns from displaced crystals (not dedicated down) and they work using special signal processing. This process is fine and dandy.

IDK my unit is 93sv Garmin that has the GT ducer--dedicated down crystal. I am pretty happy with what I have seen on mine. However, over on BBC garmin Forum there are a lot of conversations going on about the CV ducers and the using of SV signals to create the dv images. Lot of guys are not happy. Do they have a valid point? Again. IDK I have nothing to compare to. I am suspect of Lowrance's ad but who knows. HB used a similar (but more inclusive) method of dv for several years but I have heard that they, along with Raymarine, have bit the bullet and are going to pay Lowrance for the rights to use. Garmin doesn't appear to be on board yet. I don't know that my sv and/or dv were ever as good as a friend's Lowrance. Still I like what I have and what I get from it. Learned world's of stuff. The price was about half of his, and the company has a policy or flat-rate repairing for long long time. Not way high costs after warranty and see ya later after a few. Do some more research and get what will make you happy. Rickie has some insight on this.

HB models with "DI" in the model name are dedicated DI units - always have been...(Altho older numbered series and HELIX series with "DI" in the model name had no SI) ...

HB MEGA SI series have dedicated DI and SI in the same xducer ...
ONIX and SOLIX SI series also have dedicated DI/SI in the same xducer ...
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All Lowrance series with DI have always been dedicated DI ...Navico owns the DownScan patent - any other brand with dedicated DI pays Navico a license fee to use the DI technology...
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All Garmin series with DI (except the new bundled ClearVu) have dedicated DI ...

(Note...: The Garmin court litigation only affected future units bundled with a DI xducer - Garmin refused to license the DI technology from Navico and decided instead to offer the ClearVu xducer in their bundled units - only the ClearVu xducer has computer DI from SI ... All GT xducers, past and present, have dedicated DI ... The GT xducer can even be connected to the Garmin unit that came bundled with the ClearVu xducer and still get dedicated DI from the GT xducer) ...

Rickie

Dedicated DI will always be better than DI from SI ...

The Main Axis (strongest part of the sound pulse) of the thin slice DI beam is pointing straight down ...giving strong return echoes from stuff directly under the boat ...

The Main Axis of the thin slice SI beams are pointing 60° to each side - leaving only weaker echo returns from stuff directly under the boat = to be rendered into the "DI from SI" computer generated DI image ...

Rickie

I had read his somewhere before so I have just been using SI and 2D on my unit but sometimes I look at the DI pictures on my unit and they do look pretty as far as structure under water. But don't think it would really help showing fish.:dono
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Originally Posted by rnvinc

Dedicated DI will always be better than DI from SI ...

The Main Axis (strongest part of the sound pulse) of the thin slice DI beam is pointing straight down ...giving strong return echoes from stuff directly under the boat ...

The Main Axis of the thin slice SI beams are pointing 60° to each side - leaving only weaker echo returns from stuff directly under the boat = to be rendered into the "DI from SI" computer generated DI image ...

Rickie

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Rickie:
I think you as well as I have been following this Problem that Garmin has on another forum with their CV. transducer.
If a persons ultimate goal is to have Panoptix and was still to purchase a unit but to be sure that it has the GT transducer then that is the best course to take and still be able to have the Panoptix. It still might not have the best view in some categories but this still takes you to your final goal.
A few on other forum who have this have commented that this is what they have and are completely satisfied. I know that you are not a Garmin man but I
follow and respect your posts and knowledge.

I have the 93sv chirp with gt52. I am quite happy with the performance, it is my first sv/dv FF. I have been with a Lowrance friend whose unit showed awesome pics. Much better than mine, but he paid a lot more too. Have an HB friend whose unit doesn't come close to mine. I think a lot of that is in the operation end of it as I have seen tons of really good pics form HB si and di. They all need to be tweaked. I have found tons of cover and structural changes in the small lakes I fish. I have seen (not always) the rice pellets under the dock, and pellets in the brush on dv and on sv. I still hold out hope for Panoptix one day and that is big for me. My 2d and mapping are very good. So ultimately one must decide which of all the variables are most critical for us, go that way and be happy. There are trade-offs everywhere. And remember not all HB's have the dedicated down crystal either. With that said, Garmin made a very poor business decision with this ducer thing.

This is great info and exposed some stuff I wasn't aware of between the different manufacturers. Please keep up the conversation. :ThumbsUp:ThumbsUp:ThumbsUp

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Originally Posted by TeeDee

I have the 93sv chirp with gt52. I am quite happy with the performance, it is my first sv/dv FF. I have been with a Lowrance friend whose unit showed awesome pics. Much better than mine, but he paid a lot more too. Have an HB friend whose unit doesn't come close to mine. I think a lot of that is in the operation end of it as I have seen tons of really good pics form HB si and di. They all need to be tweaked. I have found tons of cover and structural changes in the small lakes I fish. I have seen (not always) the rice pellets under the dock, and pellets in the brush on dv and on sv. I still hold out hope for Panoptix one day and that is big for me. My 2d and mapping are very good. So ultimately one must decide which of all the variables are most critical for us, go that way and be happy. There are trade-offs everywhere. And remember not all HB's have the dedicated down crystal either. With that said, Garmin made a very poor business decision with this ducer thing.

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I to am in the process of purchasing the 93sv chirp with the GT52 transducer. I think that their are pros and cons to all of them. With my final goal being to add Panoptix then this route is the only route that I have. As you have stated also I think that the best thing to do with any of them is to spend time with it and learn all that you can about your own unit. With the internet and you tube as well as these forums there are so many ways to further our knowledge that to not learn now is our own fault more than ever before.
Even with the big blow up on the other forum about Garmin and their handling of that situation I in the end was able to learn much about their units and transducers from those pages.

Only the Garmin bundle units are packaging the ClearVu xducer in the box ... The bundle units are the only ones affected by the Navico litigation ...

Any of the units can be bought separate from the xducer ... And then buy the GT xducer of choice ... All the GT xducers with DownVu is dedicated DI...

The ClearVu xducer cannot even be bought separate ... It is only available in the bundle units ...

If someone already has bought a bundle unit with the ClearVu xducer - the GT xducer will work on that unit and have dedicated DownVu ...
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Panoptix is unique in what it does ... Reports are it "looks" and functions about the same regardless if it's on the 7" button units or on the 16" touch units ... larger units just allow more "other" features ...

The important parts are contained in the Panoptix housing... and then the signal is sent to the MFD merely for displaying ...

Rickie

What it all boils down to is if you want super pretty pictures, you gonna haveta spend more monies.