Hi
I greased my lug nuts years ago and now I can't get them tight enough to stay tight.
I've got one of those X type lug wrenchs.
Even had a tire fly off once
Do you grease the lugs?
Thanks
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Hi
I greased my lug nuts years ago and now I can't get them tight enough to stay tight.
I've got one of those X type lug wrenchs.
Even had a tire fly off once
Do you grease the lugs?
Thanks
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I use permatex anti seize on everything
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Anti-seize
Never put anything on threaded fasteners that have a torque spec. Unless a service manual says otherwise, the torque is specified dry. Adding anything that can lubricate the threads will cause you to overtighten the lugs which over stretches them.
Thanks
I have new axle and hubs, this time I got out my torque wrench! 85-95 lb ft
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X2 on what Catfan said. Never ever lubricat lug nuts. Not only can you over tighten them your at some time sure to have a loose wheel and ruin lug studs or even lose a wheel.
However you should grease your prop nut. It is held in place by a cotter key and if left ungreased for long periods can seize and be hard to remove. Same for axle nut, both are castle nuts held by cotter key.
Overtightening these can cause problems.
Just though I'd toss that in for free.
Unless you have aluminum wheels with out some type of anti-seize after time and up here in the north you may not get your wheels off. I am one that uses anti-seize religiously and have never had a wheel come off or loosen.Quote:
Originally Posted by cray
You should never, under any circumstances lubricate the threaded portion of a fastener that has a torque spec unless the torque spec gives lubricating instructions. The torque spec is a measure of how far you should stretch the stud. Over tightening can damage the stud, the hub or the wheel, and the addition of a lubricant can cause a significant increase in how tight you can get a fastener with a specific torque. If you have problems with them seizing, take them apart when doing maintenance and clean them with a solvent that leaves no residue.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bricks
Thanks
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Been using anti seize for years. Never had a problem . You just have to use good , common sense , and not over tighten . I have however , had to cut lug nuts off old boat trailers that had not been treated with some type of lubricant .
The engineers that write the specs have never had to remove an old , corroded fastner. :biggrin
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutchman
RIGHT ON...... I look at it like there is a difference between engineering and real life. I have turned enough wrenches to know there is a difference.
I hope the experts on this thread did not find my comments offensive the other day. I was a bit frustrated because I had just completed a bearing grease/seal replacement on a 20011 tandem axle boat trailer. The lug studs had never been treated, and a couple of them were gaulded. I saw this thread as soon as I sat down , and reacted in stage 1 thinking . Their advice is always sound , and I always appreciate it . Normally , I am on the side of the manufacture, or industry standard . I know they have done countless hours of research in most cases. Had I saw this thread any other time , I probably would not have made those comments . But until I have a bad experience with the procedure I use , I will continue with my method. If someone is not experienced with anti seize , then it is probably best to follow industry specs. 1 thing I bet we can agree on is don't let the high school kid at the tire shop run a impact on your lug studs�� . I think they have damaged more threads than Mother Nature ever has !!
Dutchman no problem there are times common sense out rules engineering, If engineers were always right there would never be recalls.
I don't think anybody claimed to be an EXPERT on this subject !!! but I do know there was 2 Gentlemen that expressed some good knowledge learned thru their years of EXPERIENCE that disagreed with using stuff on lugs or anything to be torqued with specs !!! and 2 men have probably forgotten more then most of the people who posted on this subject !!! including myself and I ain't no spring chicken by long shot !!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutchman
I can't speak for others, however I am a quality engineer and have worked for an OEM at the test facility. One of the labs specifically tested bolted joints. I have also worked part time in a service center, and wrench on my own junk. In fact right now I have a stuck upper tilt/trim hydraulic piston pin on my tiller motor. Let me clarify a few mis-statements in this thread.
1) Engineers do wrench on their own junk.
2) Engineers know more about bolted joints than you can imagine, they also have reams of data, statistics to support their research.
3) NEVER EVER put any lubricant on lug nuts, EVER!!!!
I have seen cars come in the shop on the back of a flatbed with a tire missing, lost on the highway. Every stud destroyed in one fashion or another. Cause, anti-seize applied at another low cost national chain shop. $50 a tire to replace 20 studs.
Bolted joints hold due to the torque/tension. The torque stretches the threads on the bolt to a engineered predetermined expansion/tension combination. Adding lubricant changes the tension required to achieve the proper torque. You can tighten the lugs "smartly" as indicated earlier in the thread. However, you haven't achieved the proper torque or stretch and could lose your wheel, and according to Murphy at the worst possible time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqYF3G6GT8w
The only place to put anti-seize on wheels is the face of the hub between the studs, not on the studs, on the metal plate between them. This is where the rust bond if formed holding the tire to the "rotor". I could go on, however the wife needs water.
Man.... And I thought that I could go off on a rant !!! This "Quality Engineer " has me beat by a long shot .
I have first hand knowledge of the subject. Seen the testing, the test results, and real world problems with lubricants on lug nuts. It is extremely dangerous. Is it a rant if your stating facts?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutchman
I am not trying to be argumentative but wanting to learn something, When looking at engineering torque specs are they using a totally dry fastener or prelubed as many fasteners have a rust preventative coating or other coatings? How does corrosion on a preused fastener actually affect torque with the added drag or slightly deformed threads from possible stretch?.
I understand your question, however it appears you are looking for more information related to how bolted joints work. When you apply torque you are achieving a predetermined clamping force designed to hold the items together. The bolt/threads will stretch to a point, elastic deformation. If you exceed that stretch threshold (yield point) you will permanently deform the bolt/threads and it must be replaced.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bricks
Here is an article that goes into the science behind clamping force, specifically for lug nuts.
Wheel and Hub Failures
Please note that over torqueing lug nuts is one of the top reasons for wheel separation. Anti-seize can cause over 5 times the recommended torque specification. Manufactures recommend torqueing wheel fasteners dry, no lubricants. Lubricants give false torque readings and lead to wheel separation. Like I said, I don't make this stuff up. Seen the facts and the evidence. I provided a link to an expert on the subject that I can publish.
I appreciate a good conversation. It's how we all learn. Questions, please ask.
I was doing some google searching on the subject of torqueing studs dry versus lubed was reading a thread on an engineering forum. One poster gave a reference at the bottom of the page showing a chart that torqueing a bolt fastener dry was showing a difference of +or - 25% and +or - 50% of the actual torqueing specs on dry fasteners. Being I was not a member I could not get to the page that actually showed the chart here is the page link not sure if any one else can pull it up. /engineering-forum-Screw-Design-calculator-document?p=10510
Your link didn't work.
I was hoping to avoid a conversation about measurement. However based on what you posted, it appears the engineers don't understand measurement, I'd have to see the referenced material to be certain of the context of the conversation.
By the way, screws are not bolts and they both serve different applications.
Use a lock nut if it makes you feel better.
But anti seize is a good deal
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I put a dab of a dot of anti-sieze on mine at the outside of stud. I finger tighten mine til it holds the rim in place and hit it with a impact gun to snug it down good. I don't let it hammer on for eternity. It leaves just a very thin coat on there to help slow down corrosion.
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Looks like more Darwin award winners waiting in line to collect their prize. Pray they don't kill anybody in the process.