Mark One Up For The Whiners

Regulations Set at October TFWC Meeting
Friday, October 28, 2016 | 11:46am
Sport Fish Regulations Set at October TFWC Meeting

KNOXVILLE, Tenn. --- The Tennessee Fish and Wildlife Commission established the state’s 2017-18 sport fish regulations at its October meeting which concluded Friday (Oct. 28) at the Holiday Inn Fair Park.

The Tennessee Wildlife Resources Agency Fisheries Division presented its original proposals for 2017-18 at its September meeting. The TFWC had requested the TWRA consider lowering the creel limit for crappie from 30 to 20 fish per day on Kentucky Lake. After the amendment to the proclamation passed in the fisheries committee on Thursday, the full commission passed the regulation Friday.

Among the other changes include harvest regulations to a 15-fish creel limit, in combination, for striped bass, hybrid striped bass, and white bass on Douglas Reservoir.
The boundary for wild trout on Laurel Creek in Carter County has been defined. The new boundary will now be from the cable crossing located one-half mile upstream of the USFS Dennis Cove Recreation Area extending upstream to the USFS boundary.
A change in the reciprocal agreement on Calderwood Reservoir will allow North Carolina bank anglers to have the same privileges as boat anglers. Similar changes are being considered by the North Carolina Wildlife Resources Commission for Tennesseans.
Boat and bank anglers on Dale Hollow Lake can use four fishing rods at one time. This is a change from the current regulation of three fishing rods for boat anglers and a change from six for bank anglers. The 4-rod limit also applies to the seasonal walleye run restrictions.
Changes to the live bait proclamation keeps existing creel limits for Class A and Class B baitfish, and established a possession limit of twice the daily creel limit for these classes. The change established a 50 fish per day limit for Class C bait fish, all species combined, with a possession limit of 100 fish. The new proclamation regulates possession of both live and dead baitfish.
Gerry Dinkins, of the University of Tennessee, made a presentation which focused on Tennessee’s freshwater mussel fauna. There are 137 freshwater mussel species in Tennessee, about half of the continent’s approximately 300 species.
The commission also heard a presentation from Brandt Information Services, on the TWRA’s new licensing systems. The new license system will begin next week, replacing the current system which has been in place since 1999.
Other presentations included an annual review of the Tennessee Scholastic Clay Target Program, the “Recovering America’s Wildlife Act” resolution, an update on Appalachian Bear Rescue, and an update on the recently-completed elk hunting season, and a computer aided dispatch system for TWRA wildlife officers.
TWRA presented three annual statewide divisional awards. Perry Massengill was named Fisheries Technician of the Year and John Hammonds is the Fisheries Biologist of the Year. David Whitehead was named the Wildlife Biologist of the Year while Tony Duncan received the Wildlife Technician of the Year award. Melvin McLerran was named the part-time Boating Officer of the Year and Brad Bagwell was named the Boating Officer of the Year.
In addition, the National Bobwhite Conservation Initiative “Firebird” awards were presented to Wes Winton, TWRA AEDC/Bark Camp Barrens WMA Manager, and Brittney Viers-Scott, Quail Forever Farm Bill Biologist.
The TFWC has one more scheduled meeting this calendar year. It will be held in Nashville on Friday, Dec. 9 at the TWRA Region II Ray Bell Building.
---TWRA---

If they don't do something about the Asian Carp problem, pretty soon you won't have to worry about a 20/person/day creel limit ... since you'll be lucky to catch that many keepers, anyway. :twocents

I agree about the carp problem, but as far as I could discern, this issue was never mentioned by TWRA as a reason to effect the creel limit, pole limit or length limit. I can't speak for TWRA's omission of the carp factor on the crappie fishery, but I can say that the creel limit was instituted to make a few people "feel good". That's Commissioner King's words, not mine. IMO, Ms King should have focused her attention on pressing TWRA to institute carp reduction/eradication policies rather than appeasing the guides and a few friends, all of whom are able to fish much more often than many of us who are unable to do so. Apparently, they want theirs, and to heck with the rest of us. I think that's called greed. I have also lost all respect for TWRA for their willingness to to disregard their own research in lieu of her totally unsubstantiated claim. Just my opinion.

Lowering the creel limit seems to be going along with what happened in Mississippi on the big 4 reservoirs. They all went to 4 pole limit/person and 15 fish per day. Those things happen when a lake gets promoted and fished as hard as lakes like Kentucky Lake does (or Grenada). More people fishing through the week as well. Lots more pressure. Makes a guy learn how to release a fish so he can keep catching fish.

The carp are a nuisance for sure, but there will be crappie to catch. I fish the oxbows of the Mississippi River and the White River in Arkansas and we still catch crappie.

Bad spawn years caused a lower keeper rate for alot of people this year.At the twra meeting at paris the biologist presented the info he had and said we've had some of the best spawns he had saw ,they just aren't keeper size yet.From what I see next spring you should see a bunch of 10 in fish.At the end of the meeting they wanted a show of hands for who wanted change and a show for who didn't want change and almost everyone wanted change.Thats the reason for the creel change,majority rules is how things work anymore.

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If I remember correctly, and please correct if I'm wrong, the biologist stated very few fisherman regularly caught the limit anyway.

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Originally Posted by arkcrappie

Lowering the creel limit seems to be going along with what happened in Mississippi on the big 4 reservoirs. They all went to 4 pole limit/person and 15 fish per day. Those things happen when a lake gets promoted and fished as hard as lakes like Kentucky Lake does (or Grenada). More people fishing through the week as well. Lots more pressure. Makes a guy learn how to release a fish so he can keep catching fish.

The carp are a nuisance for sure, but there will be crappie to catch. I fish the oxbows of the Mississippi River and the White River in Arkansas and we still catch crappie.

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Don't know about the creek limits in miss,but some lakes had different pole limits a few years ago.From what I heard it was from the majority rules.Heard a bunch of single poler showed up at a meeting and raised cain,lol.People that are serious about crappie fishing need to show up and voice there opinions at these meeting.I know at the paris meeting most people didn't like me.No one cared about the creel data,when they opened the floor up for comments and questions a guy by me got up complaining.He also said you know somethings wrong or nobody would be here.Well I got to speak next and told them what I thought,shortage of fish in the 10-11.5 in range and you can catch more short fish that I have ever.

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I have been to those same meetings, sat beside those same people and heard those same things. It amazes me that these people can sit there and listen to quantifiable data, presented by competent & qualified people who we hire to do it, yet, in total disregard to what they just heard, still feel the need to hear themselves talk about something they know absolutely nothing about. The single-polers hate the multi-pole fishermen because it is "assumed" that these multi-polers are catching more fish than they are (greed). I'm a spider-rigger because I choose to fish that way, but the reality is that the single-polers have cleaned my clock more times than I care to admit. The fact that the single-polers choose to sit on top of a brush top all day and clean it of all fish is their business and I feel no need to gripe about it, because at the end of the day we all have to honor the same creel limit. That also happens to be TWRA's position. At this past meeting (and as mentioned by Blueball), TWRA made a compelling case against the need for a reduction to the creel limit. They even went on to say that two good spawning years should result in much better catch rates in the coming years. Yet the unknowing still "raised their hands" in a support of a decreased limit. The difference in this year's "vote" from that of similar past votes however, is that the unknowing (including some guides) have now convinced a commissioner to join their ranks and to voice her support of their ridicules claims. Whats most disturbing to me is that TWRA decided to abandon their own beliefs in order to appease Ms King and her few co hearts. From the outside, the entire process appears to be a sham. Apparently, if the commissioner is local and the guides are local and the vocal unknowing are also local, then (along with a wink and nod of the Commission) they get to make the rules. So, why do we even have TWRA fishery biologists if their recommendations go unheeded. Why do we have a Commission if they are too weak to stand by their own recommendations? The current decision making process is a farce, a total waste of license payers money and is in serious need of a major overhaul.

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Originally Posted by dragline

I have been to those same meetings, sat beside those same people and heard those same things. It amazes me that these people can sit there and listen to quantifiable data, presented by competent & qualified people who we hire to do it, yet, in total disregard to what they just heard, still feel the need to hear themselves talk about something they know absolutely nothing about. The single-polers hate the multi-pole fishermen because it is "assumed" that these multi-polers are catching more fish than they are (greed). I'm a spider-rigger because I choose to fish that way, but the reality is that the single-polers have cleaned my clock more times than I care to admit. The fact that the single-polers choose to sit on top of a brush top all day and clean it of all fish is their business and I feel no need to gripe about it, because at the end of the day we all have to honor the same creel limit. That also happens to be TWRA's position. At this past meeting (and as mentioned by Blueball), TWRA made a compelling case against the need for a reduction to the creel limit. They even went on to say that two good spawning years should result in much better catch rates in the coming years. Yet the unknowing still "raised their hands" in a support of a decreased limit. The difference in this year's "vote" from that of similar past votes however, is that the unknowing (including some guides) have now convinced a commissioner to join their ranks and to voice her support of their ridicules claims. Whats most disturbing to me is that TWRA decided to abandon their own beliefs in order to appease Ms King and her few co hearts. From the outside, the entire process appears to be a sham. Apparently, if the commissioner is local and the guides are local and the vocal unknowing are also local, then (along with a wink and nod of the Commission) they get to make the rules. So, why do we even have TWRA fishery biologists if their recommendations go unheeded. Why do we have a Commission if they are too weak to stand by their own recommendations? The current decision making process is a farce, a total waste of license payers money and is in serious need of a major overhaul.

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This all comes down to the fact that the squeaky wheel gets the grease. When you have enough people complaining a political hack is always going to cave in and kiss butt. POLITICS AT ITS FINEST.

Having said this I really won't be affected at all. I never catch 30 keepers in a day but it wouldn't matter if I did. I usually only keep enough for a meal and seldom freeze a bag of fish since I live at the lake and can fish when I want.

Do like we did over here when they started running over us with some of the same things. Get addresses of the people who can effect change, get up letter writing campaigns, go to those meetings. You have to make your self heard. Have your facts. I bet if someone sat down with the biologist the would give you the information you need. You can't get anything changed complaining to each other or ranting to public officials. They deal from the perspective of votes and support even though they my not be elected an elected official had to appoint them.

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Originally Posted by dragline

I have been to those same meetings, sat beside those same people and heard those same things. It amazes me that these people can sit there and listen to quantifiable data, presented by competent & qualified people who we hire to do it, yet, in total disregard to what they just heard, still feel the need to hear themselves talk about something they know absolutely nothing about. The single-polers hate the multi-pole fishermen because it is "assumed" that these multi-polers are catching more fish than they are (greed). I'm a spider-rigger because I choose to fish that way, but the reality is that the single-polers have cleaned my clock more times than I care to admit. The fact that the single-polers choose to sit on top of a brush top all day and clean it of all fish is their business and I feel no need to gripe about it, because at the end of the day we all have to honor the same creel limit. That also happens to be TWRA's position. At this past meeting (and as mentioned by Blueball), TWRA made a compelling case against the need for a reduction to the creel limit. They even went on to say that two good spawning years should result in much better catch rates in the coming years. Yet the unknowing still "raised their hands" in a support of a decreased limit. The difference in this year's "vote" from that of similar past votes however, is that the unknowing (including some guides) have now convinced a commissioner to join their ranks and to voice her support of their ridicules claims. Whats most disturbing to me is that TWRA decided to abandon their own beliefs in order to appease Ms King and her few co hearts. From the outside, the entire process appears to be a sham. Apparently, if the commissioner is local and the guides are local and the vocal unknowing are also local, then (along with a wink and nod of the Commission) they get to make the rules. So, why do we even have TWRA fishery biologists if their recommendations go unheeded. Why do we have a Commission if they are too weak to stand by their own recommendations? The current decision making process is a farce, a total waste of license payers money and is in serious need of a major overhaul.

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Well said,agreed

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Originally Posted by dragline

I have been to those same meetings, sat beside those same people and heard those same things. It amazes me that these people can sit there and listen to quantifiable data, presented by competent & qualified people who we hire to do it, yet, in total disregard to what they just heard, still feel the need to hear themselves talk about something they know absolutely nothing about. The single-polers hate the multi-pole fishermen because it is "assumed" that these multi-polers are catching more fish than they are (greed). I'm a spider-rigger because I choose to fish that way, but the reality is that the single-polers have cleaned my clock more times than I care to admit. The fact that the single-polers choose to sit on top of a brush top all day and clean it of all fish is their business and I feel no need to gripe about it, because at the end of the day we all have to honor the same creel limit. That also happens to be TWRA's position. At this past meeting (and as mentioned by Blueball), TWRA made a compelling case against the need for a reduction to the creel limit. They even went on to say that two good spawning years should result in much better catch rates in the coming years. Yet the unknowing still "raised their hands" in a support of a decreased limit. The difference in this year's "vote" from that of similar past votes however, is that the unknowing (including some guides) have now convinced a commissioner to join their ranks and to voice her support of their ridicules claims. Whats most disturbing to me is that TWRA decided to abandon their own beliefs in order to appease Ms King and her few co hearts. From the outside, the entire process appears to be a sham. Apparently, if the commissioner is local and the guides are local and the vocal unknowing are also local, then (along with a wink and nod of the Commission) they get to make the rules. So, why do we even have TWRA fishery biologists if their recommendations go unheeded. Why do we have a Commission if they are too weak to stand by their own recommendations? The current decision making process is a farce, a total waste of license payers money and is in serious need of a major overhaul.

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Well said,agree 100%

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Originally Posted by blueball

Bad spawn years caused a lower keeper rate for alot of people this year.At the twra meeting at paris the biologist presented the info he had and said we've had some of the best spawns he had saw ,they just aren't keeper size yet.From what I see next spring you should see a bunch of 10 in fish.At the end of the meeting they wanted a show of hands for who wanted change and a show for who didn't want change and almost everyone wanted change.Thats the reason for the creel change,majority rules is how things work anymore.

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Mob rule.

I mentioned in a previous post that I was unable to attend this meeting, so I'm not privy to its attendance or how everything went down. However I have attended meetings in the past with a high public attendance and they (the unknowing) babbled on and on and voted the same way that they did at this most recent meeting. Yet, TWRA chose to stick to their guns and not make any changes to creel limits, length limits or pole limits. The thing that is different this year is that they managed to get a commissioner (Ms King) to do their bidding for them at the TWRA Fisheries Committee Meeting. For those of you who haven't seen the video of this meeting yet, then I urge you to click on the following link and see it for yourself. The Crappie segment begins about 1/5 of the way into the video. [URL="https://www.twra.tv/playlist-view/56be4ec7a071565d4a4da242/57db0b61b404cb200b3e69d1"]. I have been told, but can't prove yet, that at least some of the local guides are the ones that got to Ms King and convinced her to recommend the creel reduction. She pretty well said as much in the video. Her presentation for the reduction was weak and was presented as only a "feel good" measure. Yet the TWRA still voted it in. A disgusting display of cronyism.

Sorry, I don't post much, so I'll try the link thing again: https://www.twra.tv/playlist-view/56...04cb200b3e69d1

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Originally Posted by dragline

Sorry, I don't post much, so I'll try the link thing again: https://www.twra.tv/playlist-view/56...04cb200b3e69d1

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From what I heard at the meeting some of the guides were talking with twra about pole limit outside after the meeting.Havent watched the video,may later.

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That doesn't surprise me one bit. You guys who like to fish with more than one pole had best get ready...we're next. Now that these guys (guides) have a puppet on the commission, nothing is beyond their reach.

How does one start the process of removing an ineffective and unethical commissioner?

I may not be the sharpest tool in the shed, but .... why in the world would guides want a reduced creel OR pole limits ??

KY already has the reduced creel on Ky/Barkley (20/person/day) and I haven't heard much bellyaching about it, since it was reduced.

Can't speak for all guides... maybe one or more will get on this site and post their views on this issue. However, for those that are in favor of limiting poles, my guess is that they are single-pole fishermen and fall into the ranks of the "unknowing" who feel that the multi-pole fishermen are catching all of "their" fish...hence the shortage of fish these last few years. Nothing factual about it mind you, as evidenced by TWRA's presentation. Regarding KY's 20 fish limit, it is my understanding that KY Biologist Paul Risner attended the last meeting and stated that they (KY) are experiencing similar population issues and that he isn't sure that the 20 fish limit has helped. My opinion is that if either of these restrictions wont help, then why do it?

20 be plenty. I can't catch 10 nowadays anyways. 3 fish is a good meal for us 2 peeps. There ain't enough guides to influence the outcome. It is the folks ignorance folks. etc.

The reason guides wanted this is so they can charge clients the same price and get off the water quicker. Not only have they screwed the clients but everyone else fishing for crappie. They have been whining about this for two years. Also why do they and others complain about pole numbers? A limit is a limit no matter if you use one pole or twelve. They need to leave the poles alone. In addition some of the ones that say limits are fine are ones that live on or near the lake and catch a limit, clean them and go back for round two, seen it happen and that's a fact. Driving two hours one way for 20 fish almost isn't worth it, especially when twra has said on numerous occasions that the reduction won't help.

Obviously there were enough guides to influence Ms King. Actually, it only takes 1 if you have a willing accomplice.

So is there a conspiracy?

nope...nothing that formal. Just a good ole boy network

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Originally Posted by Cane Pole

So is there a conspiracy?

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Hey Tom, it's time for you to get out the butt kissing donkey. :biggrin

Ms King must be one ugly wart hog if she was influenced by some of them ugly varmits called guides around Paris..
They so ugly, tears run down the back of their head.

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Originally Posted by CrappiePappy

I may not be the sharpest tool in the shed, but .... why in the world would guides want a reduced creel OR pole limits ??

KY already has the reduced creel on Ky/Barkley (20/person/day) and I haven't heard much bellyaching about it, since it was reduced.

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And I don't think there will be much said about it down here either. I'm ok with 20. I'm tired of cleaning after 20 fish. There will be another day to catch em.

Just out of curiosity...do you spiderrig, pull jigs or cranks?

Again, why the change? TWRA has said that reduced creel limit will have no effect. If the commission decides a couple of years down the road that the creel limit needs to be reduced to 10 or lower with no basis or research to back it up will fishermen be good with that? I'm all for helping the fishery if there is research to back it up but when there are decisions made because of some that have the commissions ear with no reason given then I have a problem with that.

Well said dragline./ If they want to go after those with 8 poles let the gill netters go first!!!!!! The same ones sideing with the gill netters are in the single polers back pocket as well.

I fish double minnow rigs, veritical jig deep, and cast jigs and Im usually fortunate enough that don't have any trouble keeping plenty to eat and give away. But I work hard for it. I build structure and sink it, spend a lot of time on the water, fish when it's rough/cold. I don't have a problem with 8 polers. They don't bother me. I just never have gotten into it. I enjoy feeling the thump as much as I like to eat fish. And they are THUMPING it right now. Again, don't have a problem with reduced creel to 20. But 10, would be an issue. nonono

Thanks Tenncrappie. I hate to admit it, but I am severely lacking in knowledge about gill netting or commercial fishing in general. However, the fact that these two groups are in cahoots together doesn't surprise me in the least. Apparently cronyism runs pretty deep in this part of Tennessee. One thing I know for sure though, now that the greedy guides s have their very own puppet commissioner, not to mention the members of the TWFC who vote in lock step with her, their rout has only just begun. Mark my words, the next thing on their list will be pole limits, which is, without question, their holy grail... much like Roe v. Wade is to the Democrats. And Blue-Jig, like you, I have no beef with the way another man chooses to fish, or how many you choose to keep. However, if this band of self-servers should ever decide to lower the limit to 10, then I'm sorry to say that there's absolutely nothing you will be able to do about it. This creel limit reduction is just the beginning and eventually this underhanded crap is going to effect everyone in one way or another. Complacency only emboldens them. That's just the way it works.

Ky lake is the only place I fish. I'm up for hearing ideas on how we can maintain the rules and regulations that are important. I can promise you that I'll contribute.

Hard to enforce the laws. We only have one Game Warden in Henry Co. Off duty police officers/troopers/Deputy Shireffs, etc help some. I rarely see any agent(s) in our area of Ky Lake. I don't purposely violate laws. I will do what the law requires. 20 is plenty.
8 poles ok with me if that is your gig, but 3 is all I can handle, 4 if pulling cranks. Lots time I just single pole. I am versatile. After all is said and done, I have no say so anyway. You can make a caboose out of yourself trying to stop a choo choo.

A few more thoughts on this issue. Stackmaster is exactly right when he said that there are certain people who will catch their legal limit, leave & clean the fish (or give fish to another boat), then come right back for more. And, I’ll bet my boat that just about everyone on this board knows of, or has at least heard of one or more persons who have done so. Granted, this is nothing new … it’s a given that there will always be those who will game the system. What is new though, is the fact that this lower creel limit is going to invite much more of the same. Mark my words, there will be new “gamers” on the lake next year. People who have never exceeded the limit before might now be having second thoughts. I have personally heard as much. If this were to be the case, then it could quite possibly negate any so called (and quite bogus) increase in fish population. So, to all the guides and other greedy self-servers who think they know more than the biologists, as well as their lackey Commissioner and the members of the FWC who voted against their own biologists’ recommendations, be careful of what you wish for… it might just come back and bite you. Personally, I have no intention of gaming the system. I will abide by the rules, even though I think that the manner in which these rules were adopted sucks. It’s well known that cronyism runs deep in Tennessee politics. Obviously, it applies to the TWRA/FWC and fishing as well. Which brings me to my point: If the lakes of Tennessee are going to be ruled by the guides, locals and their lackey commissioners, then why should we incur the expense of hiring fishery biologists? If the guides and self-serving locals are so smart, then we don’t need them, right? Better yet, just do away with the entire fish and wildlife commission and let the local mobs rule…since that’s pretty much what we have now anyway. Or, would the public be better served if TWRA were to use their own research and analysis to establish creel limits, size limits, etc.? We don’t have a say on how many turkey or deer we can harvest, so why should fishing be any different? At a minimum, it will take the stupidity out of the rule making process.