Lately the more I read on this forum the more I am worried about Kentucky Lake's Asian Carp. Honest opinions ...is it THAT bad? Or is this year a result of a few bad spawns? And realistic predictions for the future?
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Lately the more I read on this forum the more I am worried about Kentucky Lake's Asian Carp. Honest opinions ...is it THAT bad? Or is this year a result of a few bad spawns? And realistic predictions for the future?
any place you find them YES IT'S THAT BAD !
I and a buddy sat below Barkley dam for about 2 hours on Monday and without any exaggeration I saw THOUSANDS of carp either roll on the surface or jump totally out of the water, some as close as two feet from the boat. Once in a while the warning horn would blow indicating the lock was going to empty and in the corner of the dam and wing-wall TENS OF THOUSANDS of them would leap out of the water as high as 6 to 10 feet.
Efforts to start commercializing them are going very slowly so there is not much hope in that direction.
The problem is that they eat the same thing the shad eat - plankton. And they are filter feeders so they eat a lot more than the shad eat. When the shad are gone due to a lack of nutrition all the game fish will be gone also. And that is just part of the problem as the mussels also eat the plankton and they keep the water clean enough for the game fish. When the mussels are gone everything will be gone.
I am sure the biologists are working on some sort of defense but I haven't heard any encouraging news.
I've seen more carp jumping in blood river this year than I have seen year to date. Usually seen this much activity near the dam but not further up the lake. I fear it will soon be this way from dam to dam on the tva system.
For the first time I had a silver carp jump in my boat taking off from Pisgah Bay last week! A shocker! Yes, it's bad!
The fry are thicker than the shad in the spring. They have to be by far the dominant fish in the lake by pounds now. You see them constantly on SS and DS.
SS and DS?Quote:
Originally Posted by CatFan
Side Scan & Down Scan - two different modes of sonar some of the higher end Fish Finders.
If you want to see how bad it is go below barely dam , walk down to the waters edge and look ! Hundreds of millions of the carp minnows swimming up stream !!! So thick if you put your hand in the water to block them they will pile up 6 inches just running up on top of each other .
It is gonna get bad alot quicker than the DNR is letting on .
Billions of them in the lake , it's gonna be devistating to the ecosystem !!
Clint's right !! .... and it's also known as Side Image & Down Image (SI & DI).Quote:
Originally Posted by Clint
I am seriously under the impression KY F&W doesn't give a big hairy rat's arse about Asian carp or getting rid of them.They downplay what those of us who are on the lake often are seeing. Maybe if their cash-cow elk herd started dropping dead from some mysterious malady they would be quick to get that under control.Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbo67
I am really starting to think the Dept's position is it would be so politically incorrect to kill off massive numbers of an invading species that they have just chosen to put their fingers in their ears and yell NANANANANANANA!!! all day, every day.
You are on the water all the time and seem to know what the Fish and Wildlife people are doing and will or will not do. What is your prediction on the future of the fishery?Quote:
Originally Posted by mrdux
I completely agree! The same DNR could care less that they have and currently ruining our states waterfowl hunting because of the elk. They are to support all wildlife, not just what's at the top of their project list.Quote:
Originally Posted by mrdux
These invasive fish are destroying what has generated decades of tourism dollars for western KY and the state. Oh, that's right, back in the goose hunting haydays, again it generated tourism dollars in western KY and the state.
The elk are out in central and eastern KY so they can hide all the money that western KY is making for the elk!
Won't be long before the state completely ruins public duck hunting and the Asian carp ruin the lakes, they will have to put the elk on Obamacare and food stamps!
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I really have a problem with somebody peeing on my shoes and telling me it is raining. The powers that be are putting folks like Paul Rister and the other regional fishery biologists in a really bad situation by asking them to tow the powers-that-be line that there is not a problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by fishincrazy
Let me be perfectly clear to start----I love my country but pretty much hate politicians and those who make the decisions as to where the $$ that is generated from OUR license fees is spent. I pay $95 per year for a Sportsman's license, $150 per year for a commercial guide license, $150 per year for a taxidermist license, plus all the other fees like elk draw and such, not to mention nearly $2000 total to get my Coast Guard Six Pak license. I feel those fees give me the right to express my opinion even if just being a CITIZEN of this once great country doesn't.
NOW--- I have been on top of this carp issue since it left the catfish farms in MS and AR. When it was just a novelty to see a video of some funny fish jumping out of the water, I was saying "OH CRAP!! We have to stop those before they get here!!" I screamed that at anybody who would listen as did thousands of us who depend on the fishery for part of our incomes or just love to boat and fish. We were told then it won't be a problem. When the commercial fishermen met with F&W types at KY DAM after netting nearly 200,000 pounds of the invaders in TWO DAYS, we were told it isn't as bad as we think it is. NOW we have them jumping into boats on KY and Barkely lakes, our bluegill and redear spawn was non-existant, and we can side scan the areas where we have traditionally caught good numbers of big gills and redears and all we see on the screen are 4 foot long shadows of bully invaders that are terrorizing game fish species into leaving those areas even if they claim they are not being eaten by the carp.
This week I watched silver carp jumping in several bays on KY Lake. I got report from friends who are seeing massive schools of bigheads as well as several silvers jumping in major bays on KY. There was recently an article written by Steve VanTreese in the Paducah paper about a family having their pontoon damaged by a big silver that took out the front railing when it jumped into their boat WHILE THEY WERE MOTORING IN THE CUMBERLAND RIVER CHANNEL ON BARKLEY.
IMO, they are taking a whizz on our shoes and telling us it's raining. Folks who should be able to tell us the truth are fearful of their jobs and retirements if they paint the true picture of how bad it is really.
Le t me add this--- this issue is NOT going to go away unless every state that has waterways that connect to the Mississippi drainage gets involved and works together on stopping them. I'm not so foolish to think KY can even make a dent in it by itself. It has to be a national issue. It's much more politically correct to give BILLIONS to take care of illegal invaders who cross our borders but will eventually find a way to vote to give themselves more of our tax $$.
This is a side image screenshot of Barkley last Thursday, the sad part is my screen looked like this for at least couple hundred feet. As I entered shallower water the silver carp were jumping every where behind the boat. Don't know how this is going to effect the crappie fishing, but I've got a few buddies that bass fish and they think the carp is changing the way bass have been found in the past. The bass aren't on the ledges in numbers as in the past, their theory is that the carp is replacing shad so the bass are feeding on baby carp which are not found in the same areas as shad. I think there is some truth in that.
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I'm afraid our wildlife officials are not going to do anything until our tourism officials start throwing a fit about tourism dollars suffering from this invasive species ...
Money drives all in today's society ...
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Rickie
That bottom screen shot is what pretty much every gill/redear bedding area I scanned this spring looked like.
We have all seen them for years and have told the powers to be. I know personally of someone that has been to the government and told them we have a major problem.
Until one of them or there family are hurt or inconvenienced by these fish there will be nothing done.
What we as sports fishermen need to do is get the local government officials and businesses that are soon gonna be affected by this invasion.
If the local marinas, lodges, campgrounds, and businesses were made aware of how great the problem it and that their tourism is soon to be affected them maybe they will help us out by getting on with us in contacting someone to come see for themselves the true problem.
We put in at the Paris Landing marina this morning and checked out an area just north of the bridge. It was completely covered in carp. We were trolling an area checking out brushpiles that should have been holding crappie. Instead, there were carp swimming everywhere just below the surface. We saw them on the depth finders all day. There was a higher concentration the further north we went.
Just like anything associated with the government.... until it gets into there pocket or cost them some votes nothing will ever be done ! They don't care about anything unless it causes them bad publicity or dollars !!!
I could sit below the dam and scoop the carp minnows out on the bank and do more good than any of them have done to stop this plague! !!
I think it might come down to developing a commercial fish market for these fish. I guess that's the common sense answer until they figure out how to kill them off. I've heard they've tried this but the money wasn't really good enough?
It's absolutely sickening to think these fish could screw up a trophy bass, crappie, redear and catfish fishery, sickening!
I saw my first ones below Bagnell dam in the Osage river about 98 maybe 99. Since then I have fished the Mississippi and Ohio and its tributaries. And the Tennessee and Cumberland,Kentucky and Barkley. About 5 years ago I pretty much stopped going to Kentucky. I don't know for sure how many dollars I have contributed to the West Kentucky economy....but if I had it all back I could retire.
It's a catastrophe.A plague of Biblical proportions.
When I was in the second grade in elementary school,my Dad showed up at the door of my class one day and told the teacher I was needed at home for the remainder of the day. When we got in the truck I ask Dad where we were going...he said I just wanted you to see this. He took me to one of the local conservation lakes of about 70 acres. We stood on the boat ramp and watched as the Missouri Dept.of conservation dumped chemical in the water to deprive it of oxygen.Them people scooped all the fish out as they came to the surface.HUGE buffalo,German carp,gar,etc. After a period of time don't remember exactly...they restocked it. Rough fish have never been a problem again,and I guess that was 64 maybe 65?
I can still see parts of it in my mind's eye as if it was yesterday.
Quote:
Originally Posted by redearhoosier
This is not directed at you specifically I am only using your quote.
Most folks agree that, for now, the commercial guys are the best hope. But at the same time the commercial guys are getting bashed and beat up on other "fishin" discussion boards and catfish boards as "raping the resource." KDFWR was successfully lobbied to cut the take on catfish down in the Ohio. Basically they crapped on the group that is supposed to help with the carp.
Off soap box.
I think they are negatively impacting the shad and skips below the dams. Can't catch a skip down there now.
Not being combative butQuote:
Originally Posted by Dlogfish
#1.. the bowfishermen won't let an alligator gar live for a week before they skewer them
#2... the Asian carp grow to such a size in one year that I seriously doubt they would have one iota of effect on total population.
I think this is just a way for some special interest group to raise $$. The best way to get them somewhat under control is to get the price per pound of carp up where commercial fishermen will be able to make a profit.
SOBs rip nets. If there is such a thing as fishing too good it is with the carp. Nets get so full you can't lift it.
I feel a little safer in my toon. Have only had one try to get in the boat and it hit a young man who was sitting and is 6'5" in back of neck at idle speed. Have seen a bunch of smaller fish (silvers) jumping this year. That means soon they will be bigger. Jumpers I'm not worried about except physically but big heads are really getting huge!!! We snagged one in the side this week and it was every bit of 15 pounds. Huge pods of these fish roaming just under the surface this time of year....flat water you can see them swimming with their big white lipped mouths wide open. When starting the motor sometimes it looks like an acre of water erupting when they spook. I have no answers but I'm not very smart. Spent 25 years running into buildings on fire when even cockroaches were evacuating the premises!!!! :scratchhead The big brains at KDFWR and every state that has them needs to figure this out with or without fed gov't help...Hate to see some kind of poison used to kill them but I see no other option. Whoever mentioned draining a lake that got rid of carp...definitely not an option. How ya gonna drain a whole set of all rivers and tributaries connected to the Mississippi?
I remember something in the past being told me that their gills are different than the sport fish gills.
This in mind, I thought the lab rats had developed a chemical to remedy these ivasive fish which would and only could effect them due to their gills.
Also, the huge kill a couple of summers ago. Was that a secret project that the state didn't do, or was it related to low low oxygen levels in the water?
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Lots oh huge dead Bighead's floating in the lake right now
Check them for arrow holes? The bowfishermen are doing their part even though eliminating them completely would hurt their sport.Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGBADDAD
I cannot find the article now but I read it this summer on Fox News where officials in Australia were infected these fish with a strain of herpies to kill them without harming other species. Never saw a follow up report on it.
Bow fishing has been around alot longer than our problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by mrdux
Our biggest problem has plagued us for much much longer than the carp......
It's the big headed government officials that are more intelligent and understand the ecosystem and biology. They are much more diverse in elk ****, and the incredible reintroduction of the great white mouse to the swamps and bogs of the lower Appalachian mountains.
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I have seen this exact report.Quote:
Originally Posted by crp4570
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Australia’s Answer to Invasive Carp: Unprotected Group Sex (For the Fish) - NYTimes.com
The Australian fix to our current problem.
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:Rofl
As requested, here's a link of interest concerning these fish :
https://www.tn.gov/assets/entities/t.../asiancarp.pdf
Unfortunately, most all the other webpages I've checked out only show that the tens of millions of dollars spent .... has been for "studying" the problem, and "managing" the fish. And most of the concern has been aimed at keeping them from migrating into the Great Lakes.
Thanks Pappy ...Quote:
Originally Posted by CrappiePappy
I hope we can keep this discussion going to document concerns from the fishing community side of the issue ...
Rickie
Your noted scenario is exactly why I really wish the problem could be solved without government getting involved. We all see millions of $$ being spoon-fed to universities and "think-tanks" where that money disappears into the leviathan and nobody benefits but politicians and college (most of whom hate hunting and fishing)"researchers" who put it right into their pockets or campaigns. All of a sudden it is gone and nobody remembers what it was for or cares where it went.Quote:
Originally Posted by CrappiePappy
One could walk across the school of 3'+ bigheads schooling in Smith Bay this afternoon. I've never seen such a big school of large ones just finning on the surface of the main lake in one spot as I did today.
We've started eating them after trying Asian carp at a local Paducah restaurant and the taste is quite mild and does not resemble a European or common carp in the slightest. They're a pain the the butt to completely debone but you can buy the fillets at several fish markets in the region. If the fishing industry would market to more Americans in order to start consuming these low cost fish versus the questionable farm raised swai and talapia from Southeast Asia, the commercial fishermen may have a viable domestic market.
Those jumping silver carp are supposed to be excellent eating also ...... nothing like domestic carp. Learning how to de-bone is something like trying to de-bone a northern pike. There are some YouTube videos showing how to process them.